Members' CD Release Announcements

[lollycross]

Bloomie, where is this Blackwood post I should read?
Lolly

[Bloomfield]

Bloomie, where is this Blackwood post I should read?
Lolly

In your CD announcement thread.

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 8&start=15

[dubhlinn]

.

although it does state the very obvious I was reffering to earlier.

Give or take a few f's here or there..I fully understand Peters point, and fully agree.
I would never be rude or offensive to another whistler but sometimes there is a line to be drawn.Sometimes that which assaults ones ear is so bad that you have to stand up and say..NO. This bears no resemblance to anything that ,even by a stretch,could be called Traditional Irish music.Now there are those that would argue that it has all the notes in the right place and all the right chords there as well but theres more to it than that.A lot more.
On a public forum,manners and courtesy are essential.There comes a point though when politeness surrenders to an overwhelming urgency to scream..." This is sh*t ...stop..for f's sake stop.."
There are times here when I feel like that...the guilty parties are usually very polite and charming people whose postings I enjoy but a lot of them know absolutely (bleep) all about playing Irish music...Sweet polite and charming people who I would dearly love to have a drink or three with..providing they left the whistles at home

Slan,
D.

[Will O'B]

I prefer comment to be respectful. That includes honest: When someone thinks my playing is wobbly, out of tune, phrased poorly, or whatever, and they don't tell me straight I feel like I am not being taken seriously. Like I am some sort of invalid who can't handle the truth, or like my need for warm-and-fuzzy is greater than my desire to learn and improve.

Everybody being nice and silent is worthless for those in quest of information or trying to learn. The whole point of the chiffboard (except the Pub, I guess) is to get information and to learn, so people withholding their opinions is a bit of a bummer.

YES. AMEN. I AGREE. WELL SAID.

Will O'Ban

[Cayden]

Give or take a few f's here or there.
Slan,
D.

I can assure you they were remnants of the effing and cursing I had on my mind when I heard the soundclips under discussion

[Flyingcursor]

How very interesting.

I'd like to try to understand where everyone is coming from so bear with me. Because I'm seeing good points made that aren't being backed up.
Peter I'm not trying to flame in spite of past disagreements, I'm just asking.

When you put your music out there you must be ready to accept that people will speak their mind and sometimes in ways you don't wantto hear.

My take is once you put yourself out there, by announcing your CD, posting your clips, or threads pointing to your webpage of clips, you have invited comment.

Giving that I agree with that entirely...

This bears no resemblance to anything that ,even by a stretch,could be called Traditional Irish music.

did I SAY it was ITRAD = NO,
do I want it to sound ITRAD = NO,

Sorry to disagree, but when you play Irish Traditional tunes on Irish Traditional instruments and post them as "Traditional Celtic tunes " you may invite a qualitative judgement.

What's the complaint? Is it simply that it doesn't sound like ITrad which LC never intended in the first place or is it that it was billed as "Traditional Celtic" which is misleading and contradictory to LC's post?

I prefer comment to be respectful. That includes honest: When someone thinks my playing is wobbly, out of tune, phrased poorly, or whatever, and they don't tell me straight I feel like I am not being taken seriously. Like I am some sort of invalid who can't handle the truth, or like my need for warm-and-fuzzy is greater than my desire to learn and improve.
I don't think it's helpful (or acceptable) to just bash things or to be unnecessarily negative.

I suspect that those who tend to argue for being always nice and positive, never mention what needs improvement,

That's pretty easy to understand but then....

You can record any music you want, surely but is it too much to ask a basic amount of musicality, at least to make sure the whistle you are playing is in tune with the rest of the instruments? That you have some sort of understanding of the music you are trying to play?

I think Lolly advertised her second CD as played "in an American style" which I thought wasn't quite fair to the American style, either.

There comes a point though when politeness surrenders to an overwhelming urgency to scream..." This is sh*t ...stop..for f's sake stop.."

I don't see the constructive element in these posts. If there's a lack of musicality then why not say where? If it's not fair to American style then how? American style doesn't have near the amount of ornamentation as Irish. Or did you mean something else?
And Dub, aren't you essentially saying "It sucks" without any further comment on why you want to include many f's?

When someone thinks my playing is wobbly, out of tune, phrased poorly, or whatever, and they don't tell me straight I feel like I am not being taken seriously.

The only remotely constructive critiques I've seen are Peter's reference to the whistle being out of tune and Blackwood's comment about the melody lines sounding like they were taken from a book. Yet, while helpful Blackwood doesn't offer any suggestions about how that could be improved.

If there's going to be constructive criticism then shouldn't there be some detail or helpful hints?

...while hiding your lack of skill behind the excuse you are playing an 'American' style.

Are you saying that because it's not ITrad it is unskillful or are you saying that it is unskillful regardless of genre?

It seems to me that if someone things a CD or clip is so bad they need to scream and rend their garments they should probably not say anything. If you are going to say, "This makes me want to wear sackcloth" then explain a little about why.

This is a friendly board but certainly not a touchy-feely type place (announce it on Gaelic Crossings if warm and fuzzy compliments are all you can handle ).

That's just plain funny.

[Cayden]

That took some cutting and pasting.

I think we stretched politeness a long way saying nothing in public for a good while. Blackwood gave a carefully worded and appropriate comment which was dismissed by Lolly, it was Lolly's attitude in her dismissal that made me make the remarks you quoted, as I explained in my post in the other thread. And yes, the gloves came off, I found more intrinsic insult in Lolly's replies than in any of the comments.

[Wombat]

I don't see the constructive element in these posts. If there's a lack of musicality then why not say where? If it's not fair to American style then how? American style doesn't have near the amount of ornamentation as Irish. Or did you mean something else?

When this issue came up before, I asked someone precisely which American style Bill Whelan (I think) was playing in. (I think it concerned Bill Whelan, but it might have been someone else. My apologies if I got this wrong. The identity doesn't matter for the point I'm making.) Was it old timey? Country perhaps? Now I know American roots styles pretty intimately and would recognise if told that it was even a fairly obscure regional style. At worst, I'd be able to check.

Of course, it was just Irish music played in a way that was ... well ... painful. Nobody replied to me since there clearly is no style, Irish or American, in which the Kesh jig is played quite like that. Right, so what then does the denial that it is not ITM come to? What does calling it 'American' add when there is no actual American style you would fit it into?

I concluded that calling it 'American' was just another way of saying 'shut up and leave me alone' which is fine if it's music for your own pleasure but hardly acceptable when it is music that is in some way 'published.'

[Bloomfield]

I think Lolly advertised her second CD as played "in an American style" which I thought wasn't quite fair to the American style, either.

The context of that remark was a response to Blackwood, who felt that Lolly was mislabelling her music. As for it not being fair to the American style, Wombat has made the point already. If I played "in the American style" (whichever one), I'd resent it if it was suggested that being out of tune and sounding wooden was acceptable American-style music.

I don't see the constructive element in these posts. If there's a lack of musicality then why not say where?

I think you're right that there is little constructive criticism here, although there is certainly enough to start working. I for one wasn't trying to offer any to Lolly, because I take it she doesn't want it again, and she's welcome to it anytime she expresses an interest in it. What you have to realize is that there is a history here, and that we've been through this before and that the general feel on the board was, in essence, that it is more acceptable to charge people $10 (or whatever) for a CD of bad music than it is to say on chiff & fipple that "this is bad music."

[Flyingcursor]

Thanks Peter, Wombat and Bloom for your kind responses.
I remember the history of this subject. Been awhile.

(Yeah it took a lot of cutting and pasting and three open windows)

[glauber]

If I played "in the American style" (whichever one), I'd resent it if it was suggested that being out of tune and sounding wooden was acceptable American-style music.

Here's some research material to help define the American style:

• http://www.kennyg.com/
• http://www.britneyspears.com/
• http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/millivanilli.html - dark ending in this one.

[Bloomfield]

If I played "in the American style" (whichever one), I'd resent it if it was suggested that being out of tune and sounding wooden was acceptable American-style music.

Here's some research material to help define the American style:

• http://www.kennyg.com/
• http://www.britneyspears.com/
• http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/millivanilli.html - dark ending in this one.

LOL!

Try this:

http://www.loc.gov/shop/index.php?actio ... 70&iid=864

[Teri-K]

.

Convential wisdom would dictate that interest would be great in the creations of people with whom we communicate, many times - daily. And yet, Cds by 'famous' groups whose members we may never speak with are discussed, commented on, and suggestions are made concerning their purchase...

I find it curious and disquieting that we seem to treat our own in such a disengenious manner...

With respect.
Byll

So, Byll, here we are at page 3 of the discussion. Has this shed light on your observation?

[Flyingcursor]

If I played "in the American style" (whichever one), I'd resent it if it was suggested that being out of tune and sounding wooden was acceptable American-style music.

Here's some research material to help define the American style:

• http://www.kennyg.com/
• http://www.britneyspears.com/
• http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/millivanilli.html - dark ending in this one.

LOL!

Try this:

http://www.loc.gov/shop/index.php?actio ... 70&iid=864

I think I prefer Bloomfield's link.

http://www.1001tunes.com

[rh]

[*]http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/millivanilli.html - dark ending in this one.

Milli Vanilli were European, dude....
can't pin that one on us