Question on learning/playing guitar

mamakash · Post by **mamakash** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:45 pm

I've been contimplating learing acoustic guitar for some time, but I don't know how best to start. I do know that I'd rather learn at home at my leasure. Can anyone recommend some good tutorials? I want something that is frendly and simple enough to get me started, but comprehensive enough so I achieve the skills to build on.
My interest is primarily with Irish music, but I wouldn't mind a tutorial that leans towards folk.
Guess I'm looking for Bill Oach's guide to guitars.

Any recommendations for a guitar? I don't want to break the bank, but do want an guitar I can grow with.

ScottStewart · Post by **ScottStewart** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:50 pm

I play Yamaha guitars, mainly because they are a great value for the money, and mine have a sound equal to or superior to any Martin I've ever heard. There are better sounding guitars, but they are usually made by private luthiers and cost a couple thousand. I love the APX series of Yamaha, it has a smaller body, but a really nice sound, bright enough for fingerpicking, but full enough for strumming and flatpicking. Plus it can be plugged in for amplification.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:53 pm

Acoustic Guitar magazine has an online discussion forum. There are various categories of discussion, eg beginner, teaching etc. There are some pretty knowledgable people there.

Lots of people like Seagull guitars as a relatively inexpensive make.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/

Click on "guitar talk".

Steve

cj · Post by cj » Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:58 pm

Tacoma's budget line, Olympia, makes a really nice one as does Epiphone (Gibson's budget line). For tutorials and articles, check out http://www.cyberfret.com.

mike.r · Post by **mike.r** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:03 pm

The Acoustic guitar forum is a good place to visit for the info you need although there are many here like me that pick guitar.Seagul guitars offer good value in the states I beleive.Peace, mike

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:36 pm

My two cents and 'scuse me if you know all this already:
You are at the mercy of local retailers but you can't go wrong with the Canadian guitar line either called Seagull or Norman. They have a matte finish, are made of good materials and are set-up well. They are superior to comparably priced (Yamaha has a higher line) Korean-made Yamahas. I have sold and played most kinds of guitars and this Canadian company changed the landscape of affordable guitars. Expect to pay about $400.

I use one professionally in a folk group and people are amazed at the sound.

Yamahas are now available at Costco but I would always buy from a shop that had a set-up person for adjustment. If you're lucky, you'll have a local retailer who fine-tunes them before sale. We do in the Bay Area. if you're visiting here for any reason, I can give you the place to get one.

Decide if you want to use traditional tuning or go with DADGAD. The latter has become standard for Irish music but it is still a matter of personal choice. DADGAD has only been used for about 30 years or so, I think, and even though people are used to it, it has no greater VALIDITY than standard tuning except that people use it more in beloved bands (this could cause a flame war but I have never brought it up in this TINWHISTLE forum). You should know that DADGAD guitars have quickly sort of evolved into their own thing. The players apparently like em with a lighter sound: smaller than the standard American dreadnought size and lighter string thickness. It seems like on the traditional players records (if they even use guitars) the accompaniment style is light and understated. It is really cool sounding but IMHO I don;t think its any more Irish than regular chords. Put more properly, Irish music is melodic. Any harmonic addition is just that, an addition.It could be said that DADGAD, by being lighter and having more drone-like tones, somehow reminds one of the pipes and the chord combinations sound more modal with much less prominent major thirds than a regularly-tuned guitar.

if you go with standard tuning and learn that way, I would suggest tuning the sixth string down to D so you can pick up many of the tunes and use moving bass lines etc.

There are several DADGAD books out but I haven't viewed them from a perspective of learning from stark beginner. Others on this thread have given good advice and sites to check out.

Good luck!

[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-04-23 18:40 ]

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:55 pm

Well, I learned the Classical Guitar method, and I find that with that base, I can play pretty much anything I want...

But that's just me...

Classical musician turned Celtic...

dd · Post by dd » Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:56 pm

as the owner of several martins ( and yahamas..........that dont unfortunatly sound nearly as good as my martins) and lowden, a couple of guilds and taks...i would have to second the seagull nomination. I think for an beginner they are a great choice. They have a good product for the cost and a nice sound. Alvarez also makes some decent and resonable priced low end guitars now. It all depends on how much you want to spend. The other option is to check consignment/used guitars at a reputable dealer. Generally in buying used you have to know what to look at, but if it is a music store who you have used before they will want repeat business and will be honest about the instrument. The most important thing is.........try them......hold them plunk on them. Get a size and shape that feels good to you. Get a neck that feel good. Push on the strings...fret them.......check out the tone...is it what you like. Take a friend who plays guitar and listen to the instrument, or have the sales clerk or a customer ........but LISTEN to it.

jackorion · Post by **jackorion** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:30 pm

You'll need a quality guitar, and the best way get bang for the buck is to buy used. If you know anyone who plays guitar have them come along with you. Martins are your best bet, the luthiers at Martin are pure craftsmen. They have many models at many price ranges and all are great. Guild is another fantastic guitar. Yamaha can be hit and miss. I have played some fine Yamahas, but I wouldn't go there because Martin can meet the price and retain the value. It's always a good idea to have your guitar set up due to string tension. Keep this in mind. A guitar that isn't set up may be a diamond in the ruff. Things to look for are tight grain on the spruce top, wider grain at the shoulders is ok as well, but you want that tight grain around the bridge and sound hole. Nock on the top and listen to the acoustic quality, after doing this to a few guitars you'll hear the difference. If there is alot of meat on the bridge then you have alot to work with as far a string height or action.

About learning guitar, start out with standard tunning, learn basic folk songs that have three chords. Early Dylan or other 60's folk (even The Beatles) is good for this. These chords will get your fingers used to moving around on the neck. After you are comfortable with them, you can start to mess around with open tunings such as DADGAD. Keep in mind that most open tunings work best with finger picking rather then flat picking (using a pick). The drop D tuning mentioned above is a great place to start. Open tunings can make it easier for the bigginer though. DADGAD, Spanish (Gmaj)DGDGBD, Vestipol (Dmaj) DADF#AD, and many others can be barred. That is, place your finger across all the strings on the same fret and you have a chord. Richie Havens does this with Vestapol with his thumb wraped over the neck. Joni Michell uses a zillion different tunnings and bars the neck. This works best for strumming with the pick.

It's a big can of worms to open up the guitar case. A tad bit larger then the whistle I have to say, but once you find your style and where you want to go with it, it is just as if not more rewarding.

Myself I prefer Lute tuning, which is the same as standard but the G is droped down to F#. I mostly write in this tuning and a bit in spanish.

Writting songs is where it's at for me so the guitar is essential.

Oh yeah don't forget to buy a Capo. You'll want to have one of those!

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:35 pm

A friend of mine just bought his son a first guitar and he went with the Seagull. I've heard lots of positive things about them but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

It's important to go and try as many guitars as you can. Even without much experience, you will get an idea of what sound you like. When I was looking for my first really good guitar, one of the first few that I tried was the one for me - a Koa wood Takimine. When I actually dreamed about this one, I knew it was the right choice. It's pretty quiet, but has a very clear, bright sound that I love. It's pretty, too - which counts with me. It's a lower mid-range instrument in terms of price.

My friend who bought the Seagull loves his Yamaha guitar. He used to be very sensitive about it not being a Martin or some such, but says the sound has improved so much with time and playing, he wouldn't trade it now.

jackorion · Post by **jackorion** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:51 pm

Blackbird, if you have a Koa Takamine it is most likely quite valuable. If it's solid Koa then it's extremely valuable. Yamaha used to make a replica of a Martin D28. It was a Veneer rosewood guitar. Martin tried to sue them. It's a great guitar but age tells all. An old solid wood Martin sounds like a music box. If you don't know anyone who has one, listen to Niel Youngs acoustics and you'll hear it. Hold on to that Takamine!!

I wanted to add that not playing your guitar can actually damage it. The vibrations open up the pores in the wood and cuase it to dry out more. This opens up the sound. I have an awsome martin that has been on loan for a few years just so it will get played. A big part of this is a drying proccess that the wood goes through. I wonder if it's the same with whistles, you have to swab em though eh?

[ This Message was edited by: jackorion on 2002-04-23 22:59 ]

dd · Post by dd » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:55 pm

The "improving" sound, mentioned is probably due to the solid wood top. Look for one with at least a solid wood top. Avoid plywood. Laminates on side and back on a cheaper model may be okay at sound fine. A good guitar with a solid top will improve with age and playing as the wood seasons.

[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-23 23:36 ]

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:31 pm

Jackorion, the guitar I have is solid Koa, but quite new, and not so valuable. I was told that it was the first all solid wood guitar that Takamine made, but that could have been sales hype for all I know. It was featured in Acoustic guitar magazine's great guitars under $1200 shortly after I bought it. That was about three years ago. But I can imagine it being valuable some day, as it is a beauty. The more I play it, the more I like it. I was never compelled to play every day until I got this guitar.

dd · Post by dd » Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:41 pm

[quote]
On 2002-04-23 22:51, jackorion wrote:
An old solid wood Martin sounds like a music box. If you don't know anyone who has one, listen to Niel Youngs acoustics and you'll hear it. jackorion on 2002-04-23

Gee and I guess thats why old Martins are SO collectible. I guess Yamaha decided they wanted to COPY martin...because they sounded like a MUSIC box. WHAT old Martin have YOU been playing. TELL IT TO CLAPTON!!!!-he seems to like them.

[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-23 23:44 ]

LeeMarsh · Post by **LeeMarsh** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:24 am

On 2002-04-23 22:30, jackorion wrote:
You'll need a quality guitar, and the best way get bang for the buck is to buy used. If you know anyone who plays guitar have them come along with you. Martins are your best bet, the luthiers at Martin are pure craftsmen. They have many models at many price ranges and all are great. Guild is another fantastic guitar. Yamaha can be hit and miss. I have played some fine Yamahas, but I wouldn't go there because Martin can meet the price and retain the value. It's always a good idea to have your guitar set up due to string tension. Keep this in mind. A guitar that isn't set up may be a diamond in the ruff. ...

Mamakash,
A Luthier is a someone trained to hand make an acoustic guitar and to fix them. Check around with you friends who have had their guitars worked on. Then go visit the man (or woman) before you buy a guitar. His help will be invaluable and he may have a lead on a used guitar that will meet your needs. He will be able to take a look at your hands and give you an idea what to look for. Also when you first buy a guitar have him (or her) set it up for you. He will adjust the guitar to make it more playable and in tune. If you decide to get a higher quality used guitar as you first guitar, see if the seller will let you you take it to the luthier. The luthier will be able to quickly evaluate any potential problems and avoid them (such as warping of the neck). This is kind of like having your mechanic check out a used car before you buy it.

I'd also highly recommend shopping around for a used guitar. A lot of folks buy expensive, well made guitars that they play for 3 months with dreams of being Eric Clapton. When they find that learning the guitar, takes more time and practice, the abandon it and move to something else. So, find someone that can help you find a good guitar, and look for a used one. If you are planning on taking lessons, you might want to get the instructor to help you select a good used guitar.

If you live in the Baltimore-DC area, drop me an e-mail and I'd be glad to help.

Hope this helps you in selecting an instrument that will be another path to ...