Do you swing?

[lundblad]

of course there is a way to swing the different tunes. When I know a tune by heart and don't play it too fast or too slow I think the "groove" comes naturally with gracenotes and punctuations so that the tune lives. By lifting the chanter you can get effects like increased volume and poppings, Just use your imagination.
The only way to improvise is to learn something by heart and then step away from that, Thats improvising in my opinion and then you get a groove. Listening to Paddy Keenan everything seems so simple and natural...thats improvising...

[benwalker]

I think it is very possible to swing whilst piping. There is rhythmic accents you can add to give the straight rhythms a lilting feel.
I liken it to Samba. Often when listening to Samba music it is played with a rolling almost anticipated feel giving the rhythm an almost chaotic , but very rhythmic feel. Often the UK samba bands don't play with the feel of Samba and it can sound stiff and wooden.
I'm not saying that ITM has to be swung in a certain way, just that often the rhythmic element can be interpreted within the framework of reels, Jigs etc.

[eric_smith]

I thought it might be interesting to somebody to see what I was talking about regarding transcribing rolls, so I put together the following ABC. It should drop as-is into

http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

X:1
T:Rolls
L:1/16
{A}G2{F}G2 | {AGF}G4 |{A}G{F}G3 |(3{A}G2F2G2| z8 | z8 |
A2G2 ~G4 | A2G2{A}G2{F}G2| A2G2 {AGF}G4 | A2G2 (3{A}G2F2G2 | A3G (3{A}G2F2G2 |


Bar 1 - called "open" roll by Denis Brooks. Clarke calls it a crotchet roll. Also called a short roll.
Bar 2 - This is the 'expanded' version of the half-circle symbol in CRE I. It is also expanded into this in DWMC and TPPT. Brooks calls this a "tight" roll.
Bar 3 - Brooks explains that there is some "flexibility" in how tight rolls are played. He gives this as one possible approximation.
Bar 4 - "old" roll of Brooks. This is also the roll as described by Rowsome of 1936 and as show in his transcriptions for his students (as reproduced in An Piobaire)
Bars 5 & 6 - rests so everything looks nicer
Bar 7 - ABC only has a tilde as a short hand for a roll, but if you substitute a half-circle, you have the familiar notation for a roll in a reel.
Bar 8, 9, 10 - the various rolls as played in a reel.
Bar 11 - this is another way (the other is Bar 10) that rolls are transcribed in O'Neill 1001 Gems.

Eric

[Little Green Man]

Wow, this topic has a braided rope rather than a thread. Recently I asked a top piper, who is steeped in the tradition, why some hornpipes are played with a dotted rythmn whilst others are played even. He said that it was probably down to the particular requirements of the dance/dancers. I guess that a common understanding and way of doing things becomes essential in any community and that, sometimes, the answer to a question is so obvious that an over-analytical mind can't see it.

Then, there's the question of that "off beat" which is so essential to all kinds of dance music all over the world. I find it hard to capture on the pipes (but then I would) although it's definitely easier to achieve whilst playing in a dotted rythmn because, as Royce pointed out, even the less- accomplished player can get into a mechanical groove using that lead-in note.

And then there is "real" swing. You can analyse it all you like, but as far as I am concerned, it is something that other people do whilst I just listen in wonder. I have seen that Alan B side-sway which is followed by a kind of musical levitation. Maybe people like me need to throw away the tutor books and just listen and listen. Then one day, when we are not thinking too much, our subconscious will take over and...bingo! Hit me with your rhythmn stick, someone.

[djm]

and just listen and listen

Yes, listen and listen, but the real trick is to learn to listen to yourself; to the sound that is coming from your instrument. It is too easy, and too often the case, where someone is concentrating on the mechanics of moving their fingers and not really listening to the sounds they are making. Listen to others to learn what the music should sound like and get it into your head, but then listen to the sounds you yourself are generating and manipulate that sound to match what is in your head. Repeat as required.

djm

[tommykleen]

Do I swing?

No.

But I do sha-wing!


t

[glands]

DJM said

then listen to the sounds you yourself are generating and manipulate that sound

Well said.

Joe McKenna once said something to the effect that, after 40 years or more of playing, he is finally able to do just that....sit and listen to himself play, without thinking about doing it, and that the soundscape he creates is inspiring and calls for interaction with it by himself. It's sort of like he's describing plane shifting to me. Maybe this ability is to be the holy grail of piping???? Now, I know that some of you will over intellectualize and analyze and tell us you do that already and I believe we all do to some extent. But, I think Joe McKenna is at the "one with the instrument" stage for his very own being and that is where I wanna be someday. I'm sure that it'll mean different things to me and you folks....but it is a journey and I think ariving at that stage will open many more figurative doors with different options for further growth. I'm gonna go for it!

[David Lim]

Maybe this ability is to be the holy grail of piping???? Now, I know that some of you will over intellectualize and analyze and tell us you do that already and I believe we all do to some extent. But, I think Joe McKenna is at the "one with the instrument" stage for his very own being and that is where I wanna be someday. I'm sure that it'll mean different things to me and you folks....but it is a journey and I think ariving at that stage will open many more figurative doors with different options for further growth. I'm gonna go for it!

Hopefully this isn't overly analysed but surely this is what being a musician is all about.

Getting to the point where technique is no longer an impediment but a channel. You have played for so long that you brain "sees" your instrument as a part of you and playing is as natural as talking. Even when you get to that point, of course some of us are better talkers than others, with a clearer grasp of the language, it's nuances and how to move people.

"Holy Grail", yes, maybe analysis has to be balanced by mythology.

There is no denying this instrument can be magical.

David

[David Lim]

Glands has just reminded me of one of my favourite piping memories.

It was at the piping concert one Willie Week (can't recall dates).

The organisers of the concert had let the earlier players go on for too long and the 10.30 ceilidh was looming fast.

I was sat near the front and as the concert moved on to the superstars I could hear the tall man who was in charge say "just one set, no slow airs!" to each pipers as they went on. They were all so rushed and flustered by having the well rehersed sets truncated each player seemed to fail to settle into their natural form.

That was until Joe McKenna. As Joe went on he was told "just one set, no slow airs!". My memory fails at this point (maybe someone else who was there can fill this in). Someone Joe knew had recently died and he said something like "This is dedicated to......." and he started a slow air. The tall man put his hands over his face and turned away.

Joe played the air and went into a truly uplifting reel afterwards. It was the most beautiful and moving music I had heard a piper play.

And of course whether he swings or not is completely irrelevant.

David