Holding the flute

[Miragliuolo]

How many players rest the flute on there left shoulder while playing? I never really thought about it before until I was reading some stuff on holding the flute, but I do it. I tried it the proper way and man it's hard, my left thumb was killing me. Resting the flute on my shoulder doesn't really cause me any pain. I don't know what the long term affects are, but I would prefer to keep resting it on my shoulder. I feel it puts less strain on my wrists and fingers. Any thoughts?

Mike

[Nanohedron]

I just work through any discomfort, make sure I'm not doing the "death grip" (a major cause of hand pain), and keep my hands and their joints supple and relaxed by stretches and such. The position you're describing is far more unnatural to the body than normal fluteplaying already is, and I'll bet that neck problems will eventually come of it. I seem to recall, too, that one's windway becomes more restricted in such a position.

Still, I've seen it now and again, but it gives me the willies.

[jim stone]

It's discouraged, this left shoulder stuff.

Do you know the various options for holding flute?
The left thumb needn't be much involved.

[Denny]

You should be able to remove the left thumb from the flute at any time...

Wade through this thread.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... torder=asc

Short answer: Use the base of your index finger.

Denny

[Jon C.]

Here is two examples of how to hold a flute,
I think Matt has the right idea, Moe needs to bring his flute a little more level...

[fyffer]

It's hard to see from the pictures/avatars how people are actually holding their flutes. I'm a relative new fluter, having been a fifer for a few years now. I've tried transferring my fife grip to the flute, and it seems to work for the most part, but based on reading this thread and the other one mentioned, I can't help thinking that my left hand is not really in the best possible position. After playing for a while, I have a really noticeable "dent" in the first joint of my left index finger, which is apparently what takes the brunt of the pressure. This finger position also leaves me very little mobility for L1, especially WRT speed. I tried (only a little -- I'm at work) holding the flute with a much more open left hand - kinda like the picture from the other thread mentioned (hold on, looking for it ...)

(Sorry, Dan -- had to put you here too.

Only with this pic, it's kinda hard to see where all the fingers are. With my inline Tipple, this feels very difficult to cover all the holes well, but it will probably save my wrists in the long run. Here's a pic of how I hold my fife (the only one I could find) which kinda shows how I hold the flute as well. Note how my left index finger is squished up against the fife. Bad habit? Time to break it before it gets any worse??

[michael_coleman]

Doesn't it hurt your neck if you rest it on your shoulder? Yes, the thumb is a bit sore, but it toughens up.

[bang]

fwiw, here's a top view:



the fingers are pretty much right over the tone holes: middle pads of index & middle fingers, and end pad of ring fingers. for me this is a completely relaxed position. note that i rotate the left & right hand sections of the flute differently so that in the pic the fingers lay flat on the flute at slightly different angles. on flutes w/ a single body section there is a bit more bend in the wrists & fingers.

enjoy! /dan

[fyffer]

fwiw, here's a top view:
the fingers are pretty much right over the tone holes: middle pads of index & middle fingers, and end pad of ring fingers. for me this is a completely relaxed position. note that i rotate the left & right hand sections of the flute differently so that in the pic the fingers lay flat on the flute at slightly different angles. on flutes w/ a single body section there is a bit more bend in the wrists & fingers.

enjoy! /dan

Ahh -- I see a big difference here: You appear to have what I've always heard called "clarinetist's thumb", in which the afflicted's thumb bends quite unnaturally far in the *wrong* direction at the first joint (i.e. from squishing your thumb against the octave hole of the clarinet at a young age, henceforth arresting all normal development of the digit. of course, my wife has it too, and has never touched a clarinet in her life.), thereby making your hand position shown much easier for you.

I have a different affliction - double-jointed thumbs, in which my thumbs bend unnaturally back at the lower joint of the thumb - actually "popping" out of the socket (sounds painful, but it's not. My daughter has it too). Placing my thumbs in the position shown in your picture seems quite impossible given my genetic predisposition.

I guess I need to keep playing for a while and see what works best for me.

[Henke]

Dan, I also found your way of playing the easiest initially, it feels sort of natural, especially if one is accustomed to pipers grip from Low Whistles etc. I made the transition to normal grip later though and I now find it much better. After having practiced it for a while I found that the fingers were a lot more agile, it's easier to move them at speed, it makes for a more relaxing grip. When you get the grip right, you will balance the flute on three points: The mouth applying outward pressure, the inside of the left hand applying inward/upward pressure and the right thumb providing outward pressure. You'll be playing with your fingertips. With these three points you'll be able to hold the flute up without supporting it from underneath, eighter with your shoulder or your thumbs, you should also be able to lift all the fingers off the flute (except for the right hand thumb) at once. The results are great after a while, it'll feel frustrating initially though and it takes some time to learn but it's worth it.

[bang]

You appear to have what I've always heard called "clarinetist's thumb", in which the afflicted's thumb bends quite unnaturally far in the *wrong* direction at the first joint

who? me? unnatural? :-)

if you think *i'm* odd, look at these pics of Hariprasad Chaurasia:




i will note that there is very little effort by the thumbs; just enough to support the weight of the flute and *gently* hold it against the chin. also, there is some flexibility in the exact position of the thumbs along the length of the flute. finally, i've been tending to move my right thumb a tiny bit higher than shown. this lets it push out horizontally just a bit, which seems to improve stability when my right pinky is off the flute.

not for everyone i know, but it works well for me (so far... :-)

enjoy! /dan

[Miragliuolo]

Dan, I also found your way of playing the easiest initially, it feels sort of natural, especially if one is accustomed to pipers grip from Low Whistles etc. I made the transition to normal grip later though and I now find it much better. After having practiced it for a while I found that the fingers were a lot more agile, it's easier to move them at speed, it makes for a more relaxing grip. When you get the grip right, you will balance the flute on three points: The mouth applying outward pressure, the inside of the left hand applying inward/upward pressure and the right thumb providing outward pressure. You'll be playing with your fingertips. With these three points you'll be able to hold the flute up without supporting it from underneath, eighter with your shoulder or your thumbs, you should also be able to lift all the fingers off the flute (except for the right hand thumb) at once. The results are great after a while, it'll feel frustrating initially though and it takes some time to learn but it's worth it.

I am not getting it. Do you mean to tell me that with just your right hand thumb and your mouth that you can balance the flute? How is this possible?
I would like to see pictures of this if anyone has any. I not trying to be offensive i'm just trying to figure this out.

Mike

[bang]

I am not getting it. Do you mean to tell me that with just your right hand thumb and your mouth that you can balance the flute? How is this possible? I would like to see pictures of this if anyone has any.

well, i'm not a Rockstro player, so these could be completely wrong, but here's how i would interpret it:




note that the base of the left hand index finger is somewhat underneath the flute, and that the right hand thumb is high enough on the side of the flute to push outward. the left hand thumb is not on the flute, though many seem to rest it there lightly to control a tendancy for the flute to roll down.

how badly am i demonstrating this, all you "normal" folks? :-)

enjoy! /dan

[treeshark]

I am not getting it. Do you mean to tell me that with just your right hand thumb and your mouth that you can balance the flute? How is this possible?
I would like to see pictures of this if anyone has any. I not trying to be offensive i'm just trying to figure this out.

No there is a third point the base of your left index finger acts as a pivot. The right thumb pushes against the side of the flute which pushes in turn against the base of the Right first finger which transfers the pressure to below the bottom lip. So every digit is primed for action except the right thumb. I didn't see how the hell it would work at first but if I wanted to use those keys. At first I used to press with my right hand too hard, fearing I would drop the flute, but now I use only enough pressure to keep it there and no more.

[Miragliuolo]

Now this is starting to make a little bit of sense. So the flute will be pressing again the chin just below the bottom lip with a good amount of pressure?

Mike