OT - language again

[Antaine]

just out of curiosity...those of you in Ireland how would you answer the following questions. Those in Scotland, Wales and Brittany may answer as well, but please identify yourself and where you are from. Substitute "Irish" for the applicable endangered language

Do you have a passable knowledge of Irish?

Would you like to be fluent?

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht?

Would Ireland still be Ireland without Gaeilge?

If you had a child today, would you insist that they knew Irish as well as English (ie be fully bilingual)?

If you have had children in the past, did you try to make that a reality(gaelscoileanna, etc)?

Why or why not?

In your estimation, is the Irish language better off than it was 20 years ago?

In your estimation, is the Irish language still in danger of extinction in our lifetime?

Within the next 100 years?

thank you

[Hallion]

Antaine

I hope this mail finds you well.

With regard a few of your questions please find my answers below:

Location: Ireland.

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: OT - language again

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Do you have a passable knowledge of Irish? YES

Would you like to be fluent? ALL FAMILY ARE - ME NOT AS I HAVEN'T USED IT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht? THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. THE GOVERNMENT IN THE 26 WANTED TO INTRODUCE GAEILGE/BEARLA SIGNS

Would Ireland still be Ireland without Gaeilge? NO. GAELIGE HAS INFLUENCED THEY WAY WE ALSO SPEAK ENGLISH - THAT HORRIBLE LANGUAGE WITH WHICH WE CONVERSE INTERNATIONALLY.

If you had a child today, would you insist that they knew Irish as well as English (ie be fully bilingual)? THEY DO.

If you have had children in the past, did you try to make that a reality(gaelscoileanna, etc)? YES - BUNSCOIL, MEANSCOIL

Why or why not? PART OF OUR CULTURE AND SINCE THERE ARE SO MANY PROBLEMS IN IRELAND IT GIVES THEM AN UNDENIABLE IDENTITY. HOWEVER, SPEAKING IRISH DOES NOT IN ITSELF MAKE THEM IRISH. THAT BELONGS TO THEIR UPBRINGING, IE. BORN OR REARED IN IRELAND (NORTH OR SOUTH), PARENTS, EXTENDED FAMILY, ETC...

In your estimation, is the Irish language better off than it was 20 years ago? MUCH BETTER OFF. IN BELFAST ALONE THERE'S AN ESTIMATED 48,000 IRISH SPEAKERS. THIS FIGURE IS COURTESY OF FORAS NA GAEILGE. IN FACT BELFAST HAS THE ONLY RECOGNIZED CITY GAELTACHT IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY. AS GAEILGE IS ALSO ON THE RISE IN DUBLIN CITY WITH THE INFLUX OF PEOPLE FROM DOWN THE COUNTRY.

In your estimation, is the Irish language still in danger of extinction in our lifetime? NO. THE FACT THAT IT IS COMPULSORY IN SCHOOLS NORTH AND SOUTH, AND THAT TEACHING METHODS HAVE CHANGED SHOULD ENSURE AN EXTREMELY HEALTHY FUTURE. CERTAIN DIALECTS OF IRISH ARE EITHER ON DECLINE OR HAVE DIED UNFORTUNATELY. THIS NEEDS TO STOP.

Within the next 100 years? I FORESEE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF IRISH PEOPLE, BE THEY NATIONALIST OR UNIONIST WILL BE SPEAKING IRISH FLUENTLY, THUS MAKING THE COUNTRY TRULY BILINGUAL.
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[AlanB]

..

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Well.... there's Cornish Pasties for one!

Another thread decimated.... thank you.... thank you very much

PD.

[AlanB]

..

[djm]

I had read somewhere that the last Cornish speaking person had died in the early 1900s.

djm

[Antaine]

from what i've read the last manx speaker died in 1974, but some sources give the date for the death of manx as 1900. linguistic death would be the point at which it is no longer a first language, even if it is still an active second language.

the last speaker of cornish died c 1777.

cumbrian died out in the middle ages, and left behind very few records. some of the only preserved words are apparently numbers used in certain children's games

at least with manx, the revivalists know for certain what the language sounded like (esp. since it is my understanding that it remained an active second language), that is not the case with cornish, which is currently being revived as an academic-educated-guess language called "cornic"

That's why I left those three off the list.

[PJ]

Do you have a passable knowledge of Irish? YES

Would you like to be fluent? YES

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht? YES

Would Ireland still be Ireland without Gaeilge? NO

If you had a child today, would you insist that they knew Irish as well as English (ie be fully bilingual)? YES - not necessarily fully bilingual, but certainly fluent.

If you have had children in the past, did you try to make that a reality(gaelscoileanna, etc)? N/A

Why or why not? N/A

In your estimation, is the Irish language better off than it was 20 years ago? NO BETTER NO WORSE

In your estimation, is the Irish language still in danger of extinction in our lifetime? NOT IN OUR LIFETIME

Within the next 100 years? POSSIBLY, UNLESS WE'RE CAREFUL TO PRESERVE IT

To tell the truth, I'm not living in Ireland. I was born there and lived there until I was 30 (4 years ago). I now live in Quebec (aka French Canada) and what must have happened to Irish in Ireland 100+ years ago. I also have had to learn French in order to be a fully participating member of society in Quebec. It was tough and from time to time it still is. However, language is one of the main stays of culture. Without it, Quebec would not be a distinct society, and would most likely be the 51 state. The day that Ireland finally loses the Irish language will be the day that a large part of what makes us unique passes.

[Antaine]

There is a group that is trying to stimulate tourism to the gaeltacht from france, germany, italy...any place that doesn't speak english. the thought is that the irish language would be a lot better off if those living there had to deal with a multitude of languages, even if they're stronger ones.

the thing that makes english such a detriment to gaeilge is that it is practically the only "strong" languages the gaeilgeoirí have to deal with, and so the temptation is to learn english. if they had to deal with many languages, they would likely still learn english, but use gaeilge much more

[phcook]

The last Cornish speaking person was, I think, Dolly Pentreath, who lived and died (1777) in Mousehole, Cornwall (Kernow); and in Mousehole was also living the first Cornish man who received the Victoria cross (Crimea war, 1854-1855).

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

Interesting. I'm just another Yank language geek type...not from any of the countries in question. My answers pertain to both Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

Do you have a passable knowledge of Irish? Define passable. I can speak and read a bit. I'm better acquainted with Scottish Gaelic. (Dh'ionnsachadh mi Gaidhlig nuar a bha mi nam oileanach ann an ard sgoil--ann an California--agus nuar a bha mi nam oileanach aig Oilthigh Ghlaschu, dh'fhoghlam mi aig Sabhal Mor Ostaig chun aon seachdain.)

Would you like to be fluent? Yup.

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht? Anything to confuse the tourists. I spent a summer in Dingle and there are all these signs around town saying "Mall" ("slow"). Apparently, all these tourists (Americans, naturally) kept asking where the mall was. In the Scottish Highlands and Islands, signs are bilingual Gaelic/English.

Would Ireland still be Ireland without Gaeilge? Ireland would still be Ireland, but it wouldn't be the same Ireland. Same goes for Scotland. As is natural with language death and replacement, something else would over time replace it. I'm not saying that's a good thing though.

If you had a child today, would you insist that they knew Irish as well as English (ie be fully bilingual)? Not a big issue for me since I'm not Irish or Scottish. If I were to have kids and they expressed an interest, (say, in connection with trad. music or some other cultural interest), then that would be very cool indeed.

If you have had children in the past, did you try to make that a reality(gaelscoileanna, etc)? N/A.

Why or why not?

In your estimation, is the Irish language better off than it was 20 years ago?
Irish--Yes and no. There's a lot more hype. It's cool to send your kid to bunscoil. There's more Irish on TV (eg TG4) and more interest among secondary speakers who comprise the vast bulk of the Irish-speaking population. Has there been an explosion of population and usage in the Gaeltachtai? A vibrant rush of new, cutting-edge literature, film, and music in Irish (akin to say, Wales)? Um, no. Not really. There is a dearth of "new/contemporary" Gaelic-medium cultural content and it's far worse in Scotland...Although check out these guys: http://www.millahuilerud.com.
Mill A h-Uile Rud ("Destroy Everything") are a truly old-school punk band that sing exclusively in Scottish Gaelic. There really, really needs to be more of this kind of thing...

In Scotland, the situation is far more dire. The language has improved in some respects. It's much more present in the media (newspapers, radio, tv) than it used to be and as in Ireland, people are starting to wake up to the idea that regardless of whether or not you have a heavy interest in the language, educating your children bilingually is a damn good idea. The demand for bilingual and Gaelic-medium school units far outweighs the supply of available teachers. Bilingual education has vastly expanded in the Highlands and Islands and also in Glasgow, Edinburgh and elsewhere. Sabhal Mor Ostaig, the Gaelic college on Skye has quadrupled in size over the past 10 years or so. However, there are only about 60-70,000 speakers left and for every new Gaelic speaker being born, something like five are dying. That's NOT good.

A lot of people involved with Gaelic education in Scotland have said that it will take about 20 years for the fruits of the bilingual/Gaelic medium education movement to really start having a big effect. That was nearly 10 years ago. We'll see how they're doing in another ten.

In your estimation, is the Irish language still in danger of extinction in our lifetime?
Within the next 100 years?

Depends. Irish and Scottish Gaelic are not doomed to the same deaths as Cornish and Manx. There will, for the forseeable future anyways, be a steady number of people with a strong cultural interest and a desire to learn them. However, will these languages still retain the dynamism to remain community languages or will they become the solitary domain of academics and odd hobbyist types? Will people still walk down the street in Spiddal conversing in Irish 100 years from now? Will you still be able to walk into a shop in Stornoway and ask for cupa cofaidh, mas e do thoil e? Or would people of the future gawk at you as if you were utterly daft (as some do already)? It's way too soon to tell. The idea that Ireland might someday become like Quebec or Israel is, at this point anyways, nothing but laughable fantasy and dead as Dev.

[Cayden]

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht? Anything to confuse the tourists. I spent a summer in Dingle and there are all these signs around town saying "Mall" ("slow"). Apparently, all these tourists (Americans, naturally) kept asking where the mall was. In the Scottish Highlands and Islands, signs are bilingual Gaelic/English.

There was a little piece in the Irish Times last year about the utter confusion arising in a new cultural centre where the toilets were marked with 'M' and 'F' on the doors.

Ofcourse hald the people assumed Mna and Fir and the other half Male and Female which gave rise to any amount of walking in to eachother's business.

[Antaine]

they had a similar problem with the pubs in Scotland

[Bouli]

Do you have a passable knowledge of Irish? Yes

Would you like to be fluent? I am

What do you think of the recent decision to use only Irish for signage and official purposes in the Gaeltacht? We've already been painting out the English on them for years already

Would Ireland still be Ireland without Gaeilge? No it would be another little English American outpost

If you had a child today, would you insist that they knew Irish as well as English (ie be fully bilingual)? No children yet, one on the way and please God will be Bilingual, but not English and Gaeilge, but Japanese and Gaeilge no joking!

If you have had children in the past, did you try to make that a reality(gaelscoileanna, etc)? N/A

Why or why not? N/A

In your estimation, is the Irish language better off than it was 20 years ago? Have you ever seen Grainne Seoige or Sharon Ni Bheolan? What a ridiculous question

In your estimation, is the Irish language still in danger of extinction in our lifetime?
Not a hope in hell! We will not go quietly into the night!

Within the next 100 years?
As Above

Oh and for the record, I'm In Japan

[Ciotog]

It's great that the signage in the Gaeltacht areas is finally going to be in Irish only.
I'm an Irish speaker and so are the kids though we don't get much opportunity to speak Irish outside the language ghetto.
The problem for all the Celtic languages, at the moment, as I see it, is that English is currently the world's No 1 killer language. First we had the British Empire and now the US Empire, both English speaking.
But as the sun begins to set on the US Empire maybe Cantonese will be less threatening to minority languages in this part of the world.