Condi Rice

[MurphyStout]

On a side note. These are not my opinions but I think it's a good question. How effective can a black woman be in terms of diplomatic affairs when much of the world looks down on women. I find it hard to believe her being successful dealing with heavily men dominated societies like Afghanistan and the like. I wonder if they'll even speak to her.

[Jack]

On a side note. These are not my opinions but I think it's a good question. How effective can a black woman be in terms of diplomatic affairs when much of the world looks down on women. I find it hard to believe her being successful dealing with heavily men dominated societies like Afghanistan and the like. I wonder if they'll even speak to her.

This brings to mind an interview I watched with Madeline Albright (who was also head of the State Department). She said it was sometimes difficult to get to speak with some of the Saudi Arabian government, and she had to wear a headscarf at all times.

That information probably doesn't help at all.

[susnfx]

That information probably doesn't help at all.

LOL! Oh, if only everyone on this board was this honest about their posts! (BTW, I personally found it interesting.)

Susan

[IRTradRU?]

Ol' Maddie seemed to get on just famously with that lunatic in North Korea, though.


:roll:

[Jack]

Ol' Maddie seemed to get on just famously with that lunatic in North Korea, though.


:roll:

North Korea isn't Muslim, so I doubt her status as a woman was as significant.

[Jeff Stallard]

How effective can a black woman be in terms of diplomatic affairs when much of the world looks down on women.

Yeah, but we're gonna invade those countries soon, so it's all good.

[Flyingcursor]

That information probably doesn't help at all.

LOL! Oh, if only everyone on this board was this honest about their posts! (BTW, I personally found it interesting.)

Susan

I never said my posts were relevant or helpful. That doesn't mean I think they actually are.

[s1m0n]

Ol' Maddie seemed to get on just famously with that lunatic in North Korea, though.

This is an abstract insult, bearing little or no relation to reality.

It's the kind of soundbite demogoguery that I'm sure goes down well on talk radio, but really just reveals the poster's ignorance when retailed here.

[IRTradRU?]

A picture's worth a thousand words, they say...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Grea ... 122%29.jpg

I found him very much on top of his brief.

Former US Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 986411.stm

[s1m0n]

Enter Condi Rice. A woman. A black woman... who is educated, sucessful, and (love her or hate her) happens to be in one of the of the most powerful politcal postions in our country. Isn't that something that the NAACP and NOW would want? An accomplished, educated, powerful, black woman?

Oligarchies can almost always make room for one or two individuals from an oppressed group who can be counted on to always support the continuing dominance of the group which has admitted them.

Getting someone into this position is no triumph for the underclass, however. Call them Uncle Toms or call them Quislings, but they ONLY attain this position by being resolute supporters of the dominant powers.

Why should the NAACP applaud? Rice's success will mean nothing in terms of their struggle. It's not their triumph and not their victory.

[ErikT]

Oligarchies can almost always make room for one or two individuals from an oppressed group who can be counted on to always support the continuing dominance of the group which has admitted them.

Getting someone into this position is no triumph for the underclass, however. Call them Uncle Toms or call them Quislings, but they ONLY attain this position by being resolute supporters of the dominant powers.

Why should the NAACP applaud? Rice's success will mean nothing in terms of their struggle. It's not their triumph and not their victory.

Perhaps that would be true except that the current adminstration seems to have more than their fair share of tokens which leads me to believe that the positions were awarded on the basis of merit. Unfortunately, neither you nor I have any real notion of the truth and can only make guesses based upon our bias. Apparently you are biased toward distrusting government and the officials that run it, where as I am biased toward trusting it. So in the end, it may indeed be a triumph, but we'll never know for certain until the cards have all been played.

Erik

[Darwin]

Enter Condi Rice. A woman. A black woman... who is educated, sucessful, and (love her or hate her) happens to be in one of the of the most powerful politcal postions in our country. Isn't that something that the NAACP and NOW would want? An accomplished, educated, powerful, black woman?

Oligarchies can almost always make room for one or two individuals from an oppressed group who can be counted on to always support the continuing dominance of the group which has admitted them.

Exactly which oligarchy are we talking about in the case of Rice?

If it's the Federal Government, then I think you're obviously wrong.

If it's the Republican party, then I still think that you're wrong, though it may not be so obvious.

For one thing, in spite of the Dixiecrat->Republican connection, one of the few positive things I can think of regarding George W. Bush, hisownself, is that he seems to be very sincerely non-racist. I could be wrong, but if I'm not, having such a person in a leadership position in the party is no small thing.

Actually, I think that race is one of the issues that moved many Republicans to defect to Pat Buchannan's campaign during the last election. The national Republican party just wasn't doing the job for them.

Getting someone into this position is no triumph for the underclass, however. Call them Uncle Toms or call them Quislings, but they ONLY attain this position by being resolute supporters of the dominant powers.

So, you're saying that Rice and Powell are so incompetent that they couldn't possibly have been selected on their own merits? That's hard to believe. Sure a Ph.D. or the top position in the US military may not be proof of competence, but they do indicate some ability to think and get things done.

Anyhow, we've seen lots of incompetent White folks in cabinet positions. Why do you suppose they were selected?

Why should the NAACP applaud? Rice's success will mean nothing in terms of their struggle. It's not their triumph and not their victory.

Only if their struggle involves only the advancement of one kind of "colored person", and not all of them.

I think we should be way past the point where failure to toe the liberal line rates an "Uncle Tom" designation.

[jGilder]

This thread started as a statement about Condi's race, so I don't understand why people were at all surprised when a discussion about that followed. But the concern with Condi has nothing to do with her race -- and everything to do with her politics and integrity.

Condoleeza is a perfect choice for Bush because she represents his Imperialist foreign and domestic policies. She also has been proven to be a good team player for the reckless, short-sided deceit that the Bush administration employs in its dealings with other nations, as well as American citizens. I would think honesty, grace, and good will would be better qualities for a Secretary of State in the US, but you'd first have to have a regime change in the Whitehouse for it to make sense.

As far as what Condoleeza means to African Americans -- she belongs to the party that represents corporations and their interests – not African Americans and poor people – or even the middle-class. If republicans were honest about whom their true constituents actually were -- they would never win any elections. Instead, they must fool as many people as possible into voting for them using blatant bald-faced lies in order to get the vote close enough so they can tweak the results and gain power. African Americans are usually the ones whose votes are disenfranchised most in this process and would not be very proud of Condoleeza for representing that which has deceived them. They might view it more as betrayal. In other words – Condoleeza represents the party that takes advantage of African Americans, and keeps them in low-paying jobs (if they’re even that lucky) and without good health benefits. And look out if you’re un-employed. But that goes for all other Americans too.

Powel wasn't any better for the same reason. He, as well as Condoleeza, participated in and perpetuated the lies that got us into an illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq resulting in the death of over 1000 Americans and over 100,000 Iraqis. Iraq is now a hotbed of terrorism, and the world a far more dangerous place. We, as Americans, are less safe. Iraq is only “free” to US corporations and their interests.

Our involvement in Iraq began back in the early 60s when the CIA first hired Saddam as an assassin to kill the leader of Iraq at the time. The Ba’ath party was in power with Quassim as the head of state, Saddam failed in his assassination attempt, but the CIA later groomed him for power anyway and aided his rise to power in 1979. The US government continued to arm and prop-up Saddam even when he was gassing his own people. In fact -- the US even vetoed a UN resolution condemning Saddam for this atrocity. The hypocrisy in leading an invasion and overthrow of Iraq doesn't represent the Iraqi people – the Iraqis just see us as the US coming to replace their puppet with another one. Just watch and see who eventually comes to power as a result of "elections" that took place while the country is militarily occupied.

If you want to talk about what Condoleeza represents for African Americans it will be hard to come up with anything better than she’s simply a well educated Black woman in a very high place. On the other hand, if you want to talk about why she’s a disappointment – there’s loads of reasons.

[MurphyStout]

Look out Jack, they'll be calling you a racist liberal like they called me. I guess you can also tell a man's politics by the length of his beard?

[jGilder]

Instead of spending a lot of time shaving and primping to look pretty, I'm reading articles, books, and studying history. (and playing tunes of course) You have an ally now, Jack, as they say -- A few facts always spoil a good story. If I see any stories in desperate need of some facts -- I won't hesitate.