Yet another Pakistani flute...

[luciano]

... and yet another beginner.

Hello everybody. I have bought a cheap wooden flute on e-bay, since I wanted to experiment for a while on a cheap instrument before buying a 'real' instrument.

The seller described the item to be "in tune and with a beautiful tone", or some such, and guarantees the flute against cracks for one year, which is roughly the amount of time i expect using it before deciding to upgrade or quit...

It is keyless and non tunable. It arrived this weekend, and I have been exercising on it since then.

My impressions, so far:
the flute seem actually to be in tune on the lower octave.
The upper octave seem to be generally a bit sharp. However, I manage to correct the pitch experimenting with embochure.

I've read that flutes are not generally perfectly in tune, so I'm not sure how much this problem is due to my inexperience, the flute,
or just eveything is normal.

In the upper octave, the sound is quite windy too. But it's getting a bit better.

The flute is rather quiet, in comparison to my bamboo flute in G.
This may be seen as an advantage, I suppose, since I live in a flat.

Doubts:

The flute came with an instruction leaflet, with basic care instructions. It says the flute should be oiled (weekly, at first).
It seem to suggest I should remove the cork (the rubber stopper in the section with the embochure, i guess) to oil it, and I a bit worried to 'untune' the flute. Did I understand the instruction correctly? and
if it is so, how do I make sure to place the stopper in the right position?

Thanks in advance,
Luciano

[Jayhawk]

It sounds like you lucked into a playable middle eastern manufactured flute! The second octave often is harder to get to sound nice than the lower octave, and on some flutes you simply need to roll the flute in towards you a bit when you go up to the high notes - this also allows you to play the upper notes more quietly. However, it could be that your cork is in the wrong position. It should be placed the diameter width of the headjoint back from the middle of the embouchure hole. Terry McGee's wonderful site explains this better:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Stopper.html

Is your flute really non-tunable? Just because there is no slide doesn't mean you can't tune with the tennon between the headjoint and the body. Also, if your cork is a squishy rubbery stuff, I advise that you promptly drink a bottle of wine (search for a wine with a good cork), cut & sand the cork to fit your flute (with a little cork grease to slide it back in), and this will give your flute better tone and power - squishy corks stink...

Eric

[David Levine]

A sharp upper octave is generally caused by over-blowing (blowing too hard). As an exercise, try to sound the upper octave notes (G,A,B) as quietly as you can-- whisper them. Go back and forth from the lower G to the higher G (and A, and B) without blowing harder. I find it more difficult to play the flute quietly than with volume.
Even accomplished players often go sharp in the upper octave. Hit the upper octave by tightening your embouchure rather than by blowing harder.
One thing you can do to flatten the upper octave is to move the stopper out a few mm. Try to move it out as far as you can without compromising the tuning in the lower octave. You can always move the stopper in the other direction if you go too far.

[Unseen122]

There is no need to oil it weekly if youlive in a very dry climate every 3 months should be good I only have to oil my Blackwood stuff once a year. Think Pakistan is a lot dryer than where you live so they might have overestimated any way.

[luciano]

It sounds like you lucked into a playable middle eastern manufactured flute! The second octave often is harder to get to sound nice than the lower octave, and on some flutes you simply need to roll the flute in towards you a bit when you go up to the high notes - this also allows you to play the upper notes more quietly. However, it could be that your cork is in the wrong position. It should be placed the diameter width of the headjoint back from the middle of the embouchure hole. Terry McGee's wonderful site explains this better:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Stopper.html

Probably it is a combination of the two things:
It is much easier to break in the third hamonic with this flute than with the bamboo flute, so I am probably overblowing.
After reading the provided link, I think the stopper is a bit too near the embochure hole, it's just a couple mm from the edge of the hole which is in itself quite large, 2cm, I'd guess. I'll experiment with it a bit this evening, since the page you offered is quite reassuring.

Is your flute really non-tunable? Just because there is no slide doesn't mean you can't tune with the tennon between the headjoint and the body. Also, if your cork is a squishy rubbery stuff, I advise that you promptly drink a bottle of wine (search for a wine with a good cork), cut & sand the cork to fit your flute (with a little cork grease to slide it back in), and this will give your flute better tone and power - squishy corks stink...

Eric

Well, I said non tunable, but I actually meant it has no tuning slide.
I can still pull the headjoint out a little if needed. The flute is in three pieces actually.

The cork is actually yellow and soft to the touch; I'll try replacing it as soon as possble. In fact, the cork looks like a giant ear-plug, so I was wondering if that was the right material.

Thanks a lot!

Luciano

[Jayhawk]

I like your description of the cork as a giant earplug! When you replace that, your flute should sound much better. I don't think sound bounces off that stuff...it just gets sucked away.

It really is no problem to move the cork - but a nice dowel rod is very handy or a chopstick to move the cork into position.

Eric

[luciano]

There is no need to oil it weekly if youlive in a very dry climate every 3 months should be good I only have to oil my Blackwood stuff once a year. Think Pakistan is a lot dryer than where you live so they might have overestimated any way.

Thanks. The leaflet suggests to oil the flute once a week for the first month, then once a month for the first year, then every six months.

The bore is rough to the touch, and does not look as if it has been ever oiled... it's much lighter in color than the outer part of the flute, which is smoth and polished.

[luciano]

I've done some experiments with the stopper.
It seemed to be in the wrong position after all. I moved it back to 1.9 cm from the center of the embochure, and that changed the tone and volume of the flute. Then I changed the rubber thing with a cork, and I think the volume improved again. Thanks for all the help.

The question part.

I have now bought an electronic tuner/metronome, which will be useful for the guitar too, and I tested the intonation of the flute with that.

The lower octave seems quite ok.
For the upper one, as I said, the upper notes are 20-30 units sharp, at least if I do not change the embochure. Rolling in the flute, or blowing towards myself is enough to fix that.

The high d instead is quite flat, more about 30-40 units when I use the
xxx xxx fingering, and a bit less with the 0xx xxx fingering. I can still pruduce the correct pitch, but the note is weaker than with a 'normal' embochure, and it's not as easy as fixing the upper notes.

The embochure is also quite different from that needed to obtain a proper e, for example.

Another thing I noticed is that the note I produce in a C# - d passage tends to be more in tune than when I try to play D followed by a d.

Is there something I can do to improve the intonation of the upper d?

Thanks,

Luciano

[Jayhawk]

Luciano - I'm glad the stopper change and placement made a difference...I was pretty sure it would.

By high D are you talking the middle D or the highest D? If the highest, the normal fingerings for that note are either OXX XXX or OXX OOO. I'd try the later and see if that helps.

It's fairly normal for the high A and B to be sharp.

I can't recall if you play boehm/silver flute or not, but the flute (especially the wooden flute) is a unique beast that you have to play into tune. Even the best made flute has to be played into tune for each and every note. Blow to hard, and you go sharp, and this often happens when trying to reach the upper octave until you develop a good embouchure (you don't have to blow harder to player higher on a flute - you just change/tighten your embouchure and the airflow). The issue with the high D may also be embouchure related - the upper octave is always harder at first.

So...I think practice is likely the issue. It takes years to really get good at this stuff. I've been playing several years, and I have a long way to go myself!

Eric

[le_koukou]

On some flutes (like one of mine) the third D is better with OXX XOX. You might want to try it too.

[luciano]

By high D are you talking the middle D or the highest D? If the highest, the normal fingerings for that note are either OXX XXX or OXX OOO. I'd try the later and see if that helps.

The 'middle' d. I have not tried to venture too much in the higher octave; I can play the third octave d with the 0xxx xxx fingering, I suppose the xxx xxx fingering would be quite hard. I said high, since I am using Gray Larsen book as a reference, and there is no fingering chart for the third octave. The third harmonic (the one that plays 'a' with xxx xxx fingering is pretty easy to play, by the way. I was thinking on using it to play most of the third octave, when needed. I am correct about that?

I can't recall if you play boehm/silver flute or not, but the flute (especially the wooden flute) is a unique beast that you have to play into tune. Even the best made flute has to be played into tune for each and every note. Blow to hard, and you go sharp, and this often happens when trying to reach the upper octave until you develop a good embouchure (you don't have to blow harder to player higher on a flute - you just change/tighten your embouchure and the airflow). The issue with the high D may also be embouchure related - the upper octave is always harder at first.

I have played a bit the 'flauto dolce' (recorder?) when I was at school, a lot of time ago. I have been 'playing' a cheap bamboo flute found at a fair for about two months, one hour a day, much more during weekends.

What worries me is that the note that the second octave d has a better sound when it is heavily flat, which seems odd.

I'm using the old recorder as a whistle for now; a bit of tape on the top two holes made the trick.

So...I think practice is likely the issue. It takes years to really get good at this stuff. I've been playing several years, and I have a long way to go myself!

Eric

Ok. That is actually good news to me. I'll keep practicing.

Thanks,
Luciano

[Jayhawk]

Luciano, I'm afraid I can't answer the third octave harmonics question. Fingerings for the 3rd octave seem to vary. Search around Terry McGee's site (link above) for his fingering charts...I think they go to the third octave.

Overall, I think you're on course for where you're at right now.
Just keep having fun!

Eric

[AaronMalcomb]

On third octave D I've had the best results with OXXOOX.

For middle D I find OXXXXX is more reliable. Plus it gives cuts, rolls, and crans more pop.

Cheers,
Aaron