Piping Competitions

[ausdag]

Has anyone here ever been in one of these piping competitions like the All-Ireland Championships or whatever they're called?

What are they judged on? I see Tommais O'Cannain was a Champion of one of these competitions.

What are the criteria? If a piper is ace on the chanter but chooses not to play the regs, or doesn't have regs, would he lose to a piper who is just as ace on the chanter but also good on regs?

Cheers,

DavidG

[Uilliam]

What are they judged on? I see Tommais O'Cannain was a Champion of one of these competitions.

What are the criteria? If a piper is ace on the chanter but chooses not to play the regs, or doesn't have regs, would he lose to a piper who is just as ace on the chanter but also good on regs?

Cheers,

DavidG

Don't start me Dave....Tommy Cannon,as far as I know doesn't play the regulators..and I would say he is biased against them..but he does play the accordion...(not at the same time unfortunately, now that would be worthy of a prize)
The main criteria for the competitions run by Comhaltas is nepotism..
It all depends on who turns up on the day and who is judging the contest..there are basic guidlines but I have been in competitions where the judge(adjudicator) apologised at the beginning for knowing nothing about the pipes...that about sums up the worth of these competitions.
The competitions are not graded other than age groups so ye could possibly have relative beginners with more advanced players in the same comp.
It is also not unusual for there to be only one competitor so it is not much of a competition.
I am now of the firm belief that Comhaltas has come so far away from its founding principles as to make it an inhibiting factor in the continuance of Irish traditional music.
The youngster in the branches is encouraged from day one to be competitive and there is a tremendous pressure on them at competitions(Fleadhs) to win a medal,better still a clutch of medals....The tunes are rehearsed and rehearsed from one competition to the next...I teach the pipes at a branch of Comhaltas and the kids are racing from one room to another to learn the tune for the next competition on their various instruments or the various cheilidhe bands they are in.Ye can tell what time of the year it is by the competition they are rehearsing for,and for what....musical excellence?,or the reputation of the Comhaltas branch?
What it certainly isnae creating is a fun atmosphere.
I think these competitions should be abandoned altogether,and instead have the following.
Adjudicators who know the instrument and what they are talking about should listen to the music,make notes on the adjudicating sheet as they do so now and then appraise the performance for the benefit of the young person in front of them.
Good points as well as areas that could be worked on...
None of this 1st 2nd and 3rd which can be quite upsetting and actually put ye back if ye think ye are not good enough...
That way everyone wins and the pressure is off the student ,it is also possible that the student may actually begin to enjoy the fleadhs...
If anyone frae my branch is reading this then take note,ye are heading completely in the wrong direction and competitions should have no place in ITM.
Tommy Cannon aka Tomás O'Cannain Ard-Ollamh 2004 I don't remember being asked to vote him this accolade!!in fact I don't know of anyone who was asked if he should have it....must be nepotism.
Sán Agat
Uilliam

[benwalker]

I must echo what Uilliam says. I think the whole idea of judging and competitions on any instrument is just plain daft.
I just don't see there would be any positive merit other then giving those "winners" of such competitions an ego boost and those who don't win
a dose of disappointment or perhaps even worse.

Ben Walker
Winner of the Gold cup for 12 years running in the all China fleadh
:roll:

[AlanB]

The Masons Apron.... ever wondered why that is a popular tune for competition?? (wink, wink, funny handshake )

Alan

[Joseph E. Smith]

The Masons Apron.... ever wondered why that is a popular tune for competition?? (wink, wink, funny handshake )

Alan

...hey, you checking my pulse, or are you just happy to see me?

[snoogie]

Interesting post Uilliam.

In the US (and maybe other places) in public school music programs, there are local, regional, and state music competitions. In those you are judged against yourself based on age and difficulty of the tune you've chosen.

Its one or two judges in a room with the kid hearing them play. No crowds (except other competitors) or spectators for the performance...just an anxious parent or two listening to the tune outside the door.

You are given a 'first' 'second' or 'third' based on your performance, on that tune on that day. Flawless or nearly so (depending on the judge) gets a first, minor errors second, etc.

Its possible that all the kids could get first or none. They don't give out medals or awards, but you and your music teacher are later informed of the results and given the critique from the judge(s).

In our school district, the kids get extra points in their school marks in music class for their competition score so there is incentive to do your best.

Maybe CCE should consider a similar system?

Slan,
Gary

[AlanB]

..

[Uilliam]

The Masons Apron.... ever wondered why that is a popular tune for competition?? (wink, wink, funny handshake )

Alan

That explains the All Britain Fleadh a few years back being held in the Masons Lodge in Birmingham...
The daft thing about that particular year was the outrage it caused (mainly among the Scottish contingent) at the venue. :roll: I thought it was quite appropriate given all the nudge nudgeing that goes on in Comhaltas..
Uilliam

[ballysodare]

I agree...for the most part.
I think competition is important because it gives a player a regular chance to set and exceed a goal. (ie....compteting against one's self)

The interpersonal "ha...I did better that that potzer who made fun of me mammy" that you get when naming a 1st, 2nd, 3rd prize is more of a result of the above...rather than the inherent nature of the contest.
I mean...in the end....it's just an excuse to get people to practice more. Whether it's due to personal enoyment or a blood feud..well... that's to decided.

However, I'd say that those medal junkies we see running around at highland games and fleadh's have it a bit wrong. If someone *cough*-Bill-Livingstone-*cough* sits too long in a contest just to decorate their wall...that really hurts any purpose the contest could have.

In fact, nasty terms such as "sand-bagger" are often applied behind the backs of people who decide that winning a lot of contests is better than becoming a better player because of said contests.

Then again....maybe I'm just jealous cause I don't know the handshake?

Cheers

[Uilliam]

I would add as a rider to my earlier rant that the competitions reflect more on what the parents want rather than what the child needs and that is where I fully lay the blame for the way Comhaltas has gone.ye can't blame,nor do I ,the children in this case.The parents(and I have seen it painfully too often )are pushing the children and then reflecting in the glory that follows as though somehow it is they who are winning the medals.Quite often the parent has no musicality whatsoever but they will dictate what goes on at the Comhaltas Branches...the whole business sucks

Ballysodare...quote
"than becoming a better player because of said contests."

I would say despite said contests

Uilliam

[oleorezinator]

uilliam, without a doubt you're correct about most of the judges and certainly 99% of the parents who are living vicariously through the kids. look at the monstrosity that is called stepdancing. but whats up with slagging tomas o'cannain's choice of name/language identity? you've made that comment in the past and i can't understand why. o

[danny]

i played at a all england fleah when i was 15 came second to james ogrady from london or luton i think,and the judges didnt have a clue you had to play a reel,jig,and hornpipe. they said the hornpipe wasnt the right timein to me, and then said the same to james ogrady.and james was a great player and had allready won an all ireland a fewtimes. put me off competions, was supposed to play at the all ireland but wasnt interested after that. so my advice would be dont go in for them the judges know nothing.

[L42B]

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Please note that below is my own opinon and I do not whish to cause flaming wars
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When I was in Primary School I use to enter into the Esteddfordds (spelling?) in the town that I live in. It was interesting to see the results at the end of the competition. On a few occasions one school had been favoured over the others for 5 years running (esh). Even when the group made an obvious blunder. Might I add the judge was never heard from (or seen) again (possibly a few hand shackes where made).

In the final year in the Primary School gradings are school came second. Although the team that won made a few (very minor) mistakes they won. Why do you ask? Because the tune they had performed was well beyond there age level (probably by 3 years). A very well deserved win (all the teachers and students aggreed). This particular judge in question new her stuff. I believe she was the sub-dean of a university in Brisbane.

We must also remember that judges have an opinon and it must be respected. Even if it is not the correct one. I only believe that judges should be chosen on their knowledge in one particular field or another. That way they can make fair comments on areas that where good (and not so). It's the only way you can improve.

Why I don't like these competition's. School's in the town that I live in have a reputation of showing of and blowing their trumpet (especially when they win). They have these huge (ugly) billboards at the entrance to the school saying:

a) How excellent we are
b) How many prizes we won in the Esteddford's (and other competitions)this year compared to other schools.

It tends to be the private schools that do this. Although the state schools are doing it more and more. What happend to schools being a place of learning and preporation for your life ahead? In my opinion schools have become comercialised and to competitive. Partly due to parents natural competitive nature (my childs better than yours). A friend of mine who is a teacher agrees with me

Cheers L42B

[Uilliam]

but whats up with slagging tomas o'cannain's choice of name/language identity? you've made that comment in the past and i can't understand why. o

Its a Derry thing...Tommy Cannon comes from Derry..go into Paedars Bar and mention his name in Irish,when the howls o laughter stop you'll be no wiser than ye are now,but those that know him will...
Uilliam

ps.L24B your experience doesn't sound very pleasant and is my general opinion of competitions.