Whistle Key Recommendations - Syn's

dow · Post by **dow** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:16 pm

Hello, I'm climbing out of lurk mode for what is fast becoming a semi-annual post.

As part of my Christmas this year, my wife has offered to get me a whistle or two. Unfortunately, she did put a cap on the spending of it, which I suspect has a great deal to to with our building of a new house this past summer, lol. Anyway, I'm interested in getting a Syn headstock and two or three different bodies, and I'd like your input on which keys would be best.

Currently, I have a Feadog D and a non-tunable Susato C ala Eric the Flutemaker. What keys would you recommend that I order from Mr. Bartlett? I'm a novice bordering on intermediate in playing ability, but don't have ready access to any sessions. Primarily I'm interested in playing more of the slower stuff right now, but hope to be tackling jigs, reels, etc., in the future.

Thanks, and I await your wisdom. Or at least your opinions.

Gio · Post by **Gio** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:40 pm

HI!

I guess Low D and F would be the better keys for you. I don't think Bb or Eb would change the story if you already have a high D and a C... :roll:
Low D, F, C and high D are the most common and used keys in irish music. Followed by mezzo A and high Eb.
Low Eb, F#, G, Bb, high F and high G are less common but incidentally used.
It also depends on the trad music you play... If you're going to learn from scottish cds or players you'll find mostly Eb (low and high) and Bb... Breton music is often pitched in F (high and low) and C...

I think that's how it works... but it's indeed very relative.

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:00 pm

if you'd ask my whistle teacher: "in what key was that tune?"
he'd always reply:"it's the right key"

(D)
here's a link from the main webside:

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/whistlekeys.html

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:27 pm

Well, if you're getting a Syn headstock, the available keys run from E to A:

E, Eb, D, C#, C, B, Bb, A

I have two Syns - a D I bought a year or so back, and a set (D-C-Bb-A) I picked up recently from NorCal (now IdaWhOA). I like them quite a lot, and with the set I've had a chance to at sample some the other keys.

Much as I like Feadogs, I think you need at least one other D whistle (and the Syn is a good one, with a very different sound than the Feadog).

If you like slow tunes, you'll probably want a lower, rather than a higher, whistle. I like the C and Bb tubes quite a bit. The A tube is very good, too, but because of the narrow bore the crossfingered "C nat" is a bit different - 0XX 000 doesn't work, but 0XX XX0 or 0XXX0X do. For slow tunes this is OK - for fast tunes, you'll need to learn to half-hole. The higher tubes all handle the 0XX 000 fingering just fine.

So you could go D-C-Bb , D-C-A, or D-Bb-A. Though I like the A tube, I'll admit I usually use my Serpent A for this key (louder, and the larger bore crossfingers 0XX 000 for "C nat" without any problems) unless I'm playing airs. But why not spring the extra $5 and get (at least) a D-C-Bb-A set?

(No, I'm not selling mine. I may ask Erle to make me up a few more bodies at some point, though)

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:03 pm

I think that the Syn B (B nat, not B flat) is the best in the set of available bodies. The A is a bit sharp with 0XX000, but not much. But the tone is perfect, and it doesn't take much air.

I have all the available bodies except C# (ie E, Eb, D, C, B, Bb, A).

If you want useful keys for ITM then D is the most useful, followed by C (I play a few tunes that could be played on a C whistle, but I just half hole the f#). If you know a lot of pipers who like flat sets, then C#, C, B and maybe Bb are the way to go. If you play with Border- or Small- pipers, then you may want E or A (but most likely D will suffice). Eb is a nice key, but I like my generation better.

dow · Post by **dow** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:32 pm

Thanks for all of the great advice! I just thought of another question...

DCrom mentioned that the Feadog and the Syn are very different in sound. How would you compare or contrast the Syn and Susato whistles?

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:23 am

Hmmm.

The Feadog has a traditional whistle sound, a bit complex, with a fair amount of chiff. Reasonably well balanced between octaves - the upper octave is a bit louder, but not outstandingly so. One of the better cheapies, IMHO; I've had better luck with them out of the box than I have with Generations.

Susatos tend to be fairly pure, not terribly complex, with very little chiff. Very assertive whistle. Noticably louder in the upper part of the second octave. Has been accused of sounding "recorderish". If you like the sound, these are very good whistles for the money, but many traditionalists don't care for their sound (or volume).

Syns tend to be fairly pure and sweet sounding to my ear, but with a bit of complexity - more complex and not as pure as a Susato. Reasonably loud (but less so than a Susato). Nearly as balanced between octaves as the Feadog - 2nd octave A and above are noticably louder, but not ear-piercing. They also tend to be a bit quieter in the lower keys - both of my Syns are loudest with the D body in place, getting progressively less assertive as I move from C to Bb to A.

I like them all - but with the multiple-body option a set of Syns is the most cost-effective way get high-quality whistles in all the keys.

dow · Post by **dow** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:27 pm

Thanks, DCrom for the clarifiication. That helps a lot, and gives me more material to work from.

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:41 am

Bump for other thoughts, now that I've clarified the topic.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:16 pm

I think Syn's best keys tend to be his higher ones as the bore lends itself to those higher keys. I think the Eb, C, and D are the best because of the bore size. The A and Bb are good for quiet playing, but aren't as balanced across the octaves.

alespa · Post by **alespa** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:24 pm

Hello Dow,

You haven't mentioned budget, but you have mentioned slow airs, so I am wondering if you have decided to opt out on going with a low D at this point?

matt

dow · Post by **dow** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:37 pm

Hey Matt, I feel like we're having two conversations about the same thing at once, lol.

I've thought about a low d, but at this point thought that a moltiple key'd set like the syn's would be a better choice, with a decision on a low whistle being put off until I get a better handle on technique and I get a better idea of just what I'm looking for.

Hope this makes sense. It does to me, at least a little, lol.

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:50 pm

michael_coleman wrote:I think Syn's best keys tend to be his higher ones as the bore lends itself to those higher keys. I think the Eb, C, and D are the best because of the bore size. The A and Bb are good for quiet playing, but aren't as balanced across the octaves.

I disagree! The volume level of the B is, in my opinion, the MOST balanced of all the whistles. The D is good, but the a and up are noticeably louder. To be honest, I play the Syn most, follwed by the B, and then maybe the E. Of them all, the E is worst for balance (best for sheer volume though!!). The A is a bit weak on the bottom half of the bottom octave.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:39 pm

I can only speak for the D, C, Bflat set Erle sent me - with the key etched around the top of each tube. A really terrific set for the money - really about the best value I can think of and nice manageable useful keys. Comes in a nice pouch.

Philo

Mr.Nate · Post by **Mr.Nate** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:47 pm

could someone please post the contact info for Syn whistles and current prices?

Thanks!

Nate