To ALL Uilleann Pipe List Readers (Please Read)

[oleorezinator]

can the review be posted on this forum?

[Royce]

I am a contributor to the Piper's Review and have been for a number of years. My "job", for those readers here who do not own a subscription, covers the gamut; interviews, detailed transcriptions, articles regarding practicing, etc. Because, we do not have a letters to the editor, I have chosen this forum to address a topic of concern. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Kynch Padraig O'Kaine

And you chose this forum to address a topic of concern, a "letter to the editor" type of concern, because the mailing list upon which you primarily rely is run by a guy who'd kick you off if he didn't agree with your editorial perspective on this topic of concern.

Long time no read, this is the place mate. Go at it.

Royce

[Sean Dillon]

edited

[Lorenzo]

Thanks Sean, Jeff, and Kynch. I haven't read the review, nor do I intend to, but the good thing is...pipers tend to be very independent minded. There are few, if any, who would likely be influenced or take the word of someone else to make up their minds about Eamonn's CDs. I really believe, from what I've heard so far, that the article probably reveals more about the author than the subject. I use to know TD, he actually got me started, and I never thought of him as anything except helpful and a very nice person. And, from what I've heard of his own recordings, he's still learning about best effects.

I think this unfortunate review would be an excellent opportunity for aspiring pipers everywhere to recognize how unbecoming it is to become a master of the uilleann pipes, yet no master at all of that other difficult instrument... the one with a reed 'flapping in the wind' within.

There can only be one or two motivation for someone pretty good to feel qualified to "review" someone like Eamonn Dillon who has acquired five titles in the annual All Ireland Competitions, two of which are first place: (enough said)

[Tony]

Perhaps it's time for Todd to make a second appearance on Chiff & Fipple...

[Todd Denman]

Guys,
I am the first to admit that I am capable of mistakes. Including bad or mistaken reviews. Any honest journalist or writer must admit that. I went out of my way to say positive things about a recording which was very puzzling, to say the least.

My editor had informed me that Eamonn had not been involved with the production of the CD and that Eamonn was not pleased with it either. That's all we had to go on. Because of that context, we felt the review, which was an honest reaction by both of us, was OK to print. It was never intended as a criticism of Eamonn the piper. In fact on the contrary, we felt it was disappointing for such a fine piper to be so produced.

Sean, I've enjoyed our private exchanges. I have apologized to you in private emails (and through you to Eamonn) for the apparent misunderstanding that both my editor and I had when encountering the CD in that context (see below). We knew of course the CD was not a trad CD. However, the editor wanted to review it because of the importance of Eamonn in the community. The very fact that Eamonn was not happy with the CD and was not responsible for the CD allowed the review to appropriately discuss its odd and puzzling nature. The larger, untraditional and synthetic context of the CD's music, reviewed in a traditional piping publication, was naturally worthy of some discussion from a traditional piping perspective. And isn't Eamonn a traditional piper?

Sean, you pointed out to us since publication that the recording was not made entirely in earnest. I replied that had we known it was made for the craic, or as a lark, we would have reviewed it differently. That was apparently a misunderstanding. Lacking such clues in the liner notes and the music itself, we took the CD at face value.

The editor and I have gone to great length to point out that there was no dislike towards Eamonn at all, and in fact we have only heard marvellous things about his playing and both of us felt neither recording adequately captured his talents or musical abilities. I probably wrote too much, and took the CD too seriously, and I apologize to all for any errors on my part. The review was entirely mine and any errors or misunderstandings are mine. I'm not against such types of recordings and experimental forays, as many other traditional musicians are.

Apologies again. Please pass my apologies and regards on to Eamonn. And if you can, explain what happened regarding the review. As I'm sure others may be puzzled by the CD as well.

-Todd Denman

[ChristianRo]

I believe the case can be put to rest with Todd's clarification. I am very puzzled about this uproar. I have a CD in my collection called "The Ancient Voice of Ireland" by Mick O'Brien which contains enough muzak to ruin Mick's reputation for good. Noone ever bashed Mick for this recording, because everyone rightly assumed this to be a "tourist" product rather than a heartfelt artistic statement. Sadly, in this case the piper's intention seemed to have differed from that of the producer. All on the piper's expense.

[Dave Parkhurst]

Okay me boyos....enough of that. Hey Kynch, a round of Guinness for everyone and whip out that flute of yours....

[patsky]

I think that we need to get to the point and away from the review of Eamon's CD and speak of reviewing in general. Pick up any music magazine such as Rolling Stone and you will find bad reviews of good CDs and good reviews of bad ones. The point being that a CD regardless of origin is up for criticism and rightly so.

It bothers me that Pipers and Pipe makers are so whiney and thin skinned. Neither “The Pipers Review” or David Daye’s chat list will allow a good solid criticism of either pipers or Pipe makers. Ad hominem reviews I abhor but as long as the work is in question and not the person, then I am for it. I performed on stage for over 30 years and I have had reviews that tore me apart, but I did not give up playing. I truly believe the old saying “ if you dislike the heat, stay out of the kitchen." I believe that lack of good criticism is the reason that there is so much crap floating around in every aspect of the music business, not just piping. Some seem to think that because a person is a beginner that they should not be held to high standards or that they might quit if you hurt their feelings. I do not hold this view. In classical music, teachers will very often tell the student that they do not have what it takes and should not even think of performing professionally. For some reason Americans seem to think it is their right to subject audiences to their beginning struggles. There are plenty of bands around with pipers that have only been playing for a very short period of time and are an embarrassment to not only themselves, but to the piping community as a whole. Its small wonder that a large number of people hate the pipes.

I have not heard Eamonn’s CD, but if it is amateurish and badly produced then someone should say so. If this is true, then Eamonn should be ashamed to have put it out in the first place. He should not be surprised if someone calls it like it is. I think that Todd Denman has nothing to be sorry for. In my opinion the last thing the piping community needs is to circle the wagons against critics and open opinion--- good or bad.


All the best,
Pat Sky

[djm]

PatS, good points. I have listened to a couple of clips, and I think I can understand where the criticism came from. What I would appreciate seeing in a review is what to expect music-wise more than an actual critique. As has been mentioned ad nauseum in other threads, there are many styles of piping. I do not care to hear someone from one school criticize the piping style of another school.

What I do care about is what kind of music is on the album. For instance, there is an older tape available from the NPU web site. NPU provides no description of what you might be buying from them. Fortunately, I was able to find a description elsewhere on the web, which told me the tape was overrun with screaming '70s style electric guitar that was not only intrusive, but ran right over the top of what was supposed to be a UP album.

Similarly, there are those who actually like sensitive New Age synth textures with their UPs, and that's fine for them, but I personally find this stuff to be drivel. If I know up front what type of music is on the album, I can determine if I want to pay for it or not.

With the clips I heard of Eamonn's playing, I heard some nice, tight piping buried under a lot of synth washes. I have nothing against synths per se, but these particular timbres are really obnoxious and totally detract from the piping. If Todd's article had simply stated this I don't think there would have been as much of a kerfuffle about the review. The additional info that Todd has presented here, about the albums being produced without Eamonn's artistic control, just adds to the weight of his review's warning.

I suggest we need less criticism and more plain information. Let the customer determine if they want to buy it from there, and having bought it, if they actually like what they're hearing enough to want to emulate it. That should generate more good discussion than simply trash talking a particular album or player.

djm

[Lorenzo]

Pat, I agree with the sentiments of djm. Kevin R. use to have a signature that said something like "information, information, information...all we want is information." -quite paraphrased, I know. But the idea couples with another idea I got while on the whistle forum..."we're not here to convince, we're only here to inform."

Newspaper editors have the same problem endorsing candidates. They have to appear to be nonpartisan and objective, and be very careful when endorsing someone, because the one they didn't endorse might actually win...which proves the paper is out of touch with the greater wisdom of its community.

Here on C&F, we've had our share of flames and wars over how far we should go reviewing a pipemaker's product. Many people simply departed when the criticism got rough...be it true or false. It could have been an opinion from either a newbie or a veteran, it didn't matter. Dale finally had an attorney come on with a little legal advice on how far we should go. Due to different standards around the world...some countries allow suing for defamation on the internet. It's no wonder pipe makers seldom post here. Who needs to get bogged down over "so-called" critical reviews, or be seen as someone with something to hide, like trade secrets? We only have a handful of excellent reed makers that can stand the general guesswork that takes place here, under the diguise of fact...and we appreciate the patience of this oversight committee hanging around, if only amused, as we amatures ramble all over the place going nowhere fast.

There's a fine line between offering information and knowing when it's going too far with partisan opinion....aka bashing. I'd appreciate it if someone warned me against buying a rough Pakistani set. The criticism would have had good cause. One pipe maker got so disgusted with this forum, I think he finally quit making pipes...or at least never finished his prepaid orders...he just kind of disappeared.

There's a little difference between "reviewing" piping CDs and pipe makers though. But both have careers to enhance or protect, plus a personal reputation. The one guideline that should rule reviews, IMO, is--can you offer it and still be liked by the piper, or pipemaker? If the review is riddled with "I could care less if he likes me, I'm here to tell the truth as I see it" then that review is probably over the top. Another rule that seems to work everywhere is--would I want this done to me?

One of the problems with newspapers, in their editorials, is they often get so cocky they tend to underestimate the general wisdom of the public. They trust their own opinions of themselves and can give you every reason why. They view the reader as an empty cup, and themselves as THE Fountainhead. So, they're always changing editorial staff as they practice the rule of pushing the opinions of a handful onto the plate of some true scholars. Dangerous indeed, but maybe worth the risk? Depends on your objectives. "Let the victims fall where they may...we felt we had to do it?"

[Royce]

Speaking of bad reviews:

I downloaded a searchload of UP files and one of them was a duet with Mike Oldfield and allegedly Paddy Molloney. In the middle some sort of thumping ensues I imagine to be some sort of drum, or perhaps somebody tunneling through the Berlin Wall as they play.

I'm an Oldfield fan from decades back. I guess I'll have to forgive him for inventing "New Age" music, even though his doesn't really fall into that category, er most of it. I'm also quite tolerant of Molloney's incessant frolicking ala the wee folk with his trills.

But you really have to hear this Oldfield/Molloney fiasco to believe it. It's just bad thumping and prancing on the part of the drum and guitar, with the possible exception of the very end where Oldfield goes to his classical guitar and a fingerpicking style and seems to get with it as Paddy attempts something vaguely UP friendly. It really needs a full recorder consort to fill out the effect, preferably placed near a running fan in the back of the wings, to complete the hopelessly ignorant recording mix.

I personally think, good or bad, it's not the question of the review--just the question of one person or media outlet controlling the flow of information and thus determining the public perspective. Publishing excerpts here would only balance the rebuttal and elicit more rebutting, which is a healthy thing, not a bad thing. It's as likely a good review of a bad album will need rebutting as vice-versa.

In a worst-case scenario, I might actually hear this thing, and non-trad or not, I might really like it on an entirely different level. Eamon may not have anything at all to apologise for in a broader musical sense. After listening to some hard-core live Paddy Keenan and/or Larry Nugent or whoever, when I catch a snippet of some Riverdance orchestra jig it's vomitously insipid. The first time or two I heard and saw it it was rather pleasant and exhilerating.

Doesn't hold up much though....but my mom and dad still never get tired of it.

Royce

(Unfortunately it's also recorded live in a boiler room from on top of the drum being banged, and as far away from the pipes as possible.)

[Royce]

Thought provoking insight.

Royce

No Royce, you're not doing it right. You have to look through the screen as if you're staring past the surface and gradually the message will appear 3D.

I tried that but all I saw was a full set of Angus narrow bore D's with whale-tooth mountings and platinum metalwork, floating in a glistening sea of praise....

Royce

[Uilliam]

I'm with Pat 100% on this and kinda agree with DJM.Royce makes a good point as does Lorenzo(whats happening to me I am agreeing with ye all )
Nope its OK...small point but quite important quote Lorenzo....
One pipe maker got so disgusted with this forum, I think he finally quit making pipes...or at least never finished his prepaid orders...he just kind of disappeared.
Are ye sure about this???or is it an assumption!I think the maker in question was suffering frae ill health,family tragedy and other problems...and I think his departure frae pipemaking was a combination of intensely personal misfortune and sweet Fanny Adams to do with the preening that goes on here!

Whatever happened to free speech?
Publish and be damned I say.If its sh*t then say so,after all its only an opinion,one person's meat is another person's poison etc..It can also be a boost to sales,perversely, as usually, bad publicity attracts the curiosity of the mob.
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

[Sean Dillon]

edited