Flute TRANSITION FROM WHISTLE??

[PennyWhistle123]

Hello,
I know that the flute in many ways is very different from the whistle, but my question is do many whistle players survive the transition from whistle to flute? I would love to pursue the Irish flute, even though the cost for a flute is up there. I was just wondering what the normal scenario was? Do whistle players usually end up going back to their whistle and sell their flute on e-bay? Or do their fingers fly all over the flute because they are familiar with the type of instrument already? Is embrochure the main problem that scares the tinwhistlers away from the flute? Is flute embrochure extremely DIFFICULT to develop? Am I looking at a long rough journey ahead playing the flute, or do I have an advantage because I play the whistle?

Thanks

[claudine]

hello Pennywhistle,

I started to play the tinwhistle about 4 years ago, but didn't like the shrill high notes. So after a few months, I got an Irish flute which I liked better. Embouchure is indeed the main problem, although it is easier than one would expect if you just relax but also get the help of a teacher (important! a teacher will save you from losing time and getting frustrated).

Another problem is the position of the hands, the grip. During the first months, I was suffering from cramps and pain in my hands. Finally I settled on a classic grip for the left hand, and piper's grip for the right hand. That worked best for me.

As I could not find a traditional flute teacher, I took classical flute (Boehm) lessons for 2 years. This helped me a lot for embouchure, tone and also posture (always relax your muscles - hands, arms, shoulders, neck). Of course it was not helpful for learning the real trad style.

Nowadays I don't play whistle anymore, the flute just suits me better. But this is probably just a matter of personal taste. So if you love the flute, don't be afraid, try it. But get a teacher at least in the beginning.

[jim stone]

Playing whistle is a big advantage, and, yes,
you are looking at a long journey too, because
flute is much harder. But, in my experience,
most people who start flute stay with it,
because it is an extraordinarily satisfying
instrument.

[chas]

I played the whistle for a few years, with the intention of taking up U-pipes eventually. I bought an Irish flute for my wife, who decided she didn't like it, so I started tooting on it. After a year or so, I decided I liked it, and I've played very little whistle since.

I find that having the whistle experience is helpful in a limited way. The most important is a familiarity with the music in general. Some tunes translate well from whistle to flute, others not so well, because of the difference in the grip that Claudine alluded to. The fingerings are the same, but the muscles used can be quite different, so there's not the muscle memory that's so important, especially for fast tunes. When learning a new tune, some people get the notes down on the whistle, then start noodling with it on the flute. I've done this, but rarely, usually when I'm trying to pick it up from a whistle recording.

I think a teacher makes things go a lot faster, especially in embouchure development, which can be so difficult without in-person demonstrations and the cheerleading, feedback, and accountability that a teacher provides. The flute is a whole bunch harder than the whistle, but also a lot more rewarding.

PS -- the flute board might not be the best place to ask how many people have abandoned the flute. I think you'll find very few non-fluteplayers here. The whistle board might be better.

[Unseen122]

Personaly I go back and forth sometimes I like whistle more and sometimes I like Flute more. Right now it is Whistle.

[hans]

I started out on whistles in D, C and Bb. At some point I got myself an Overton low D whistle, since I liked the low full sound. But it was a real struggle to finger the beast, and I decided I may as well struggle with a D flute, which will give me more possibilities in the long run. So I got myself an unkeyed Williams D flute, which kept me happily practising for many years. Only in the last years I got a keyed flute and now I enjoy playing in formerly difficult or impossible keys. I have not given up whistle playing, and change over frequently. It is still easier for me to play the whistle really fast, and often prefer it when playing fast dance music, as it is less tiring. But to play with lots of expression I usually prefer the flute nowadays.

I think the main stumbling block to learning the flute is embouchure and developing enough breath power, and the earlier you start practising these the better and easier it will be. 15 to 30 minutes practise every day at the beginning will give you a good start. I also profited from having occasional advise from a teacher, especially about embochure, otherwise I was happy to teach myself.

[JamesF]

I took up flute after a year of tinwhistling. Almost always, I use my pennywhistle to learn new tunes. It's a good complement that really eases the learning curve. I've never played flute before when mine arrived. I had a comfortable grip within the first week. Without a teacher I was making a decent sound (my opinion of course) in a matter of weeks. From reading on the board I also assumed it was very difficult. I think I read somewhere that it takes a year or so causing me to have serious doubts about ordering. Don't let those doubts get you. If you love something regret won't come easy.

[Random notes]

I'm also a relative newbie, but I bought a flute soon after I started with the whistles. I really enjoy playing both, but I find the flute sound more rewarding.

This is a link to C&F's 6-Hole Theory which is a newsletter by Himself, Dale Wisely, Undisputed King of Internet Whistle Journalism:

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/cf01-05-04/cf.htm

If you scroll down a bit he discusses the Casey Burns Folk Flute and the Doug Tipple PVC flute both of which should top your list of potential first flutes. IMHO, of course.

Roger

[claudine]

Let me just add another detail: my problems with handposition (cramps and pain) were probably related to the fact that I have small hands (gloves size 6 to 6 1/2) and a big flute (Hamilton D). So if you have large hands or choose a smaller flute, that could make things easier.

[Jayhawk]

I played whistle for 8-10 years or so before taking up flute (although I did play a Boehm flute for all of 6 months in my youth). I still play whistle from time to time, but primarily play flute. Whistle is nice for waiting at the drive through at Taco Bell as well as carrying around in a pocket (I have a Clare 2 piece).

In general, I much prefer flute. It just takes time and patience...

Eric

[Lambchop]

It looks like you're trying to assess the risk involved in spending for a new instrument which you might not like or might not be able to play. From my perspective, there doesn't need to be much actual financial risk involved.

You want to maximize your likelihood of success with the flute while maximizing your ability to resell the flute if things go awry.

Maximizing your chances for success would include purchasing a flute which is highly playable and, should you have concerns about your hand size, small-handed. When I began, I did so on a plastic flute which was just not very rewarding to play and which had enormous hole spacing that gave me cramps--I was frustrated and encouraged NOT to play it. However, the moment I picked up my Casey Burns flute, I was immediately able to play it, it was highly rewarding, and it was a perfect, natural fit for my hands.

I believe that it's going to be easier to learn if you get positive feedback from your flute and if it is not a struggle, and if you are going to dislike the flute for any reason, it should not be because of the flute itself, so I would recommend a Casey Burns Folk Flute.

That is a good financial choice, as well, because they are priced reasonably. While they aren't less than $100, you can re-sell the flute fairly easily should you decide to give it up or to upgrade. The Folk Flute is readily available, so you won't have to wait an inordinate amount of time, and Mr. Burns is great to work with.

Another good choice may be a Doug Tipple.

Having gone to flute in mid-summer, I can tell you that it isn't impossible. There is that matter of holding the flute to get over, and that may take a few weeks. The instrument is big, but you'll get used to it before you know it. Lots of instructions available on the web about that.

Embouchure is more problematic. With the flute, you actually have to shape the airstream yourself and direct it appropriately. This takes some practice--some trial-and-error discovery. You'll go through a number of stages as you develop.

Someone told me it would take three months to get a consistent sound from the flute, and they were right on the nose. It took me three months almost to the day to get a predictable sound on demand. It took longer to be able to play notes in sequence and have them come out anything like I imagined them to be. It took five months to discover how to get a solid, vibrant tone, and another month to be able to do it deliberately. It has only been in the last few weeks that I have been able to sit down with something in my head and transfer it to the flute, and be able to control and change the tones as I wish.

Now, I'm a little "slow" coordination-wise, and I've noticed that other beginning fluters on the list seem to make more rapid progress, so you might do better. But, learning to play this kind of flute seems to take a while, during which you make infinitesimal bits of progress. You have to be patient, practice, be happy with what little progress you may be making, and have faith that things will improve.

A teacher is probably a fine idea, but I do not have one. It's not impossible to learn without one. Many people on the list are very helpful and willing to offer suggestions if you ask. The archives are very good, in fact. The MadforTrad flute CD is handy in that it allows you to hear and see Seamus Eagan playing the pieces you'll learn, so you can use that as an ideal.

Good luck!

[michael_coleman]

I'd say try it out, you will have to learn the embochure and the placement of the fingers is slightly different (same holes covered, but placed differently), but I find it to be much more rewarding than playing my whistle. I just played a Casey Burns Folk Flute at LArk in the Morning and I would say it is a great flute for the price etc. if that isn't echoed enough here already. I would say spring for the real styled Irish flutes with Conical bore from a decent maker and stay away from the unknown Pakistani and cylindrical PVC stuff, thats just what I found out. woodenflute.com usually has a decent board of flutes being sold...in fact I still have one up there.

Make the jump, it will be worth it.

[davidshorey]

Historically, musicians found that the transverse flute held more opportunities for varied expressions than the fipple flutes. This is why the recorder fell in popularity as the transverse flutes themselves gained in flexibility and volume.
For myself, I studied Baroque performance on the recorder, and played soprano recorder in Irish and Contra-dance bands. One day I tried an old piccolo, and was amazed at how easy it was to play. For better or for worse, I never went back to my previously-beloved recorders.
I was lucky, and happen to be a dealer in old flutes. I could choose between several Rudall & Rose piccolos and a Whitaker, that all happened to be on top of the piano that day. This was in 1980. I still have the Whitaker that I choose, and have never seen a better piccolo in these past 24 years.
Having said this, I will also mention that I have seen whistle players in Ireland so fluid and etherial that their music simply couldn't be played on a flute.
I certainly hope that you will have the chance to try out the flute; even if you stick with the whistle, you will certainly survive!

[Random notes]

Newbie to newbie, let me offer this. I have both the CB folk flute and the Tipple flute. Perhaps because I got the CB first, I find the Tipple a little more demanding of the embochure and, because it is cylindrical, the finger spacing is a bit more of a stretch but not uncomfortable. It does have a good sound and intonation and a number of C&F'ers have praised it highly: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=23501

The Tipple is also nearly immune to ambient conditions and requires virtually no maintenance. Don't let money keep you from getting a flute if that is what you want to do. The CB flute has sold on these pages rather quickly for $200, and Tipple flutes have been sold here too, so either way you should be able to recover most of the cost if you decide that the flute is not for you, or if you like it so well that you want to step up to a higher priced instrument.

BTW, I have taught myself quite a bit with the help of the limitless and gracious assistance of the community at C&F as well as information from other sites, and I honestly believe that whether or not you will learn to play the flute depends much more on whether you want to play the flute and less on which flute you start with.

And that's my tuppence in the kitty.

Roger

[Bloomfield]

My advice would be: Don't start working on the flute embochure without a teacher.