OT: WARNING: Political/Potentially Offensive Thread

phcook · Post by **phcook** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:05 pm

The main difference between republic and democracy is that republic means « all public things, services, etc.” (res Publica in Latin), and is not a form of government; democracy is a form of government where public power is supposed to belong to every people, without filter between them and power.

A country where leaders are elected by voting are never democracies, for very few people (members of political fractions) prevent reasonable people from accessing to any public responsibility.

When you vote, you have to choose between few candidates, who have been selected by political fractions, not by citizens.

In a real democracy, everybody has to respect the law, so everybody should be allowed to participate to making the law.

The only democratic process would be not to vote for people, but to designate people by drawing lots.

There wouldn’t be more idiots than today designated that way.

Best

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:42 pm

I wonder if we should take charge; a 'Flutocracy' would, I am sure, be a kindly and considerate system of governance. Or would it? Factions would soon develop. The Rudall party would, in no time, be warning of the terrible danger from the Prattenist Revolutionary Front. The Cylindricals would be trying to outlaw the Conical Tendancy. Off we would go again into an Olwellian nightmare!

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:39 pm

Swiftly, rather.

I'm afraid it is religione et res publicae, Mr Cook.These should never meet.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:48 pm

andrewK wrote:Swiftly, rather.

I'm afraid it is religione et res publicae, Mr Cook.These should never meet.

Oh, Andrew, I love it when you talk that way!

No need to take charge, Treeshark.
As you say, we risk becoming Flutocrats.
We need only wait a little longer and
the State, swollen with greed and corruption,
will fall into our hands like a ripe flute.

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:50 pm

All this talk of democracy in the American or middle Eastern context is just so much hot air. We can look forward to neither. Both the US and Iraq are becoming extremist theocracies.
Bush has his Crusade and the other lot of extremists their Jihad.
The oh-so Christian Bush oh-so keen to kill, and the others keen to send their followers to Heaven ASAP.
I wish they would all continue their debate there ASAP.
The only difference between the two sides is the kill rate. The Bushes are winning by a factor of about 1000.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:15 am

andrewK wrote:Both the US and Iraq are becoming extremist theocracies.

I can't see theocracy being very compatible with free market capitalism so, I would guess, America is quite a distance from that. Bush was after all run pretty close, it's that insecurity that keeps 'em on their toes. Iraq is another matter, religious control does seem a very possible outcome...
What I wait to see, with considerable apprehension, is if the current American administration takes on another foreign military adventure in Korea, Iran, France or wherever. If they do we could be in for what the Chinese might call 'Interesting Times'.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:18 am

andrewK wrote:Swiftly, rather.

Swift.. did he make flutes?

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:50 am

Swift made observations.
He said just about everything that needed to be pointed out about human stupidity, leaving it to Mr Bush to provide the examples.
We may take a more jaundiced view of " free market capitalism " when oil is no longer quoted in dollars,( Saddam Hussein was thinking of changing to euros !!! ),when the Japanese and the Chinese have gone back onto the Gold standard,and Mr Bush has it explained to him through his back mounted control unit that America has to export more than jobs.
He might, if he is having a good day, ( there always hope ) also understand that an alternative to trying in vain to corner what is left of global fuel reserves at ever increasing cost on ever reducing exports,is to USE LESS.This need not be a painful experience. Think of lagging roof spaces and pipes, for example.Save waste. It may be the only hope.
The only things Swift missed out The Little Prince filled in !

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:31 am

andrewK wrote:Think of lagging roof spaces and pipes, for example.Save waste. It may be the only hope.

I can never get very excited about oil running out, we live in a solar system and planet just awash with available energy... it's just financialy and politicaly inconvenient to tap it at present. There always seems to be an end of it all scenario hanging about the popular mind, if it's not the second coming then it's global warming.
Do you remember the Population explosion? I think by now we were meant to only have standing room.. now the maths tells us we are dying out due to contraception.
In reality we'll probably get walloped by something we just didn't see coming.
Have they gone back to the gold standard? I didn't know. Funny stuff money it's only worth something if we all agree to pretend it is. An economist friend of mine argues that it is activity rather than productivity that drives wealth creation... I'm not so sure.

phcook · Post by **phcook** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:47 am

I wasn't even refering to religion, which is something that shouldn't be considered by simple citizens.

Swift said also that talent can be recognized by the conspiracy of suckers that raises around it.

I subscribe to all that you said, Andrew.

Best wishes

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:34 am

Well that makes two of us, PH.
It is a start !

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:47 pm

treeshark wrote:I wonder if we should take charge; a 'Flutocracy' would, I am sure, be a kindly and considerate system of governance. Or would it? Factions would soon develop. The Rudall party would, in no time, be warning of the terrible danger from the Prattenist Revolutionary Front. The Cylindricals would be trying to outlaw the Conical Tendancy. Off we would go again into an Olwellian nightmare!

Finally, factionalist muck through which I could hope to wade. Just so long as it's not a timocracy; I'd never survive.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:30 pm

Nanohedron wrote:Finally, factionalist muck through which I could hope to wade. Just so long as it's not a timocracy; I'd never survive.

Had to look this up. So the more and better flutes you own, the more power in society you would have...
Seems fair to me!

Julia C · Post by **Julia C** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:48 pm

Had to look this up. So the more and better flutes you own, the more power in society you would have...
Seems fair to me!

œ

Treeshark that would mean a power struggle between the University of Edinburgh and Michael Flatley.

Doesn't seem fair to me!

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:57 pm

I Flatley deny that