Scoiltrad Issue

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:01 pm

Good call, Teri!

I checked the Tucows whois server, and the information is the same. Domain status is "REGISTRAR-HOLD".

g

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:42 pm

OnTheMoor wrote:So rather than go through all the trouble of closing down and letting people know that they were going to close down, they just decided to let their time run out and let everyone get their own money back? Super.

The website is definitely gone. Even the email gets bounced back.

Well, I've written my credit card a letter and we'll see how it goes.

How very, very disappointing.

All I want, you know, is the rest of the lessons--without the assessment business.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:21 pm

I would hate to see them close down. I feel like they made a world of difference in my playing and in my understanding of the music.

--James

lesl · Post by **lesl** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:56 pm

Me too, what James said. I still work on the things I was told to do in my 2
critiques - they were worth much more than the price of the lessons. Let's
hope we hear from the lads in the not too distant future.
Lesl

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:13 pm

This from the Flute Forum:

"Not Conal O' Grada, who is working on a 2nd solo album, and otherwise is quite a busy man. While I tried for a track for WFO1, and had his permission, both Claddagh & Gael-Linn declined usage of one of his tracks. Right now, I think he's otherwise occupied, and may not wish to contribute a track when he has other projects going. Appearing on the "Wooden Flute Obsession" CDs is an entirely voluntary effort, and there are many reasons, legal and otherwise, why a flute player may not be able to or wish to appear.

No repeats of players, although I won't make that a firm rule. I had also wanted only solos, and there are a few duets and ensemble pieces, as well as a couple of silver flutes.

Also, Eoghan Mac Aogain was on WFO1, from the "Clare Hills" CD."

Kevin Krell

Update: VISA asked me to send them a fax with all the info and the charge back should take place in about a month.

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:17 pm

OnTheMoor wrote:This from the Flute Forum:

Any reason to quote me here? Seems off-topic really, and unrelated to any of the issues.

Kevin Krell

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:41 pm

I think the relevance may be in the part about Mr O'Grada being busy working on his new album, and therefore too busy to give any time to the folks who recently bought the Flute course from Scoiltrad and who've effectively been ripped off (and must now go through the nausea of claiming refunds).

Also, there was speculation and worry earlier that something untoward might have happened to Conal, but the quote of yours that OnTheMoor posted allays any of those fears too.

I think that was OnTheMoor's reasoning for quoting you Kevin.

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:53 pm

Yep, Gary's right, it seemed completely on topic to me.
Sorry if you have an issue with being quoted, I figured it was on the forums and therefore fair game.
People are looking for an explanation as to why they were taking money, in my case a couple hundred dollars, and refusing to communicate in any way. As Gary said, some were suggesting that something horrible might have happened to Conal, your information (as did Glauber's, which was posted earlier) suggested that he was just plain busy.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:57 pm

Conal is a respectable gentleman. Evidentally something untoward has happened with Scoiltrad (and I grieve!) but I would find it far easier to believe his role is that of fellow victim.

It is a shame that Scoiltrad is gone. It leaves a real vacuum in its wake for those learning to play well who live in areas where the music simply isn't found.

There are other online resources, but I've not seen anything that really compares, and I still hope they may iron out whatever difficulties they've encountered and return.

--James

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:47 pm

Conal is a respectable gentleman.

In what way would that be, exactly? And to whom?

I'm one of the people he stiffed, and my Mastercharge can't put a charge-back through because they're not there to charge. They tell me I'll have to track him down myself.

All my email to the Scoiltrad general address, as well as that to Mr. O'Grada himself, went unanswered. Glauber, I believe, succeeded in getting his assessments assessed, but the rest of us couldn't get them sent from the website, and when sent by email they were ignored.

I do not think Mr. O'Grada is a victim. I think he's uncaring and probably dishonest. After all, how difficult could it be to send me a disk with the remaining lessons? Or just a note of explanation? Something?

I'm currently hunting for the Irish equivalent of the BBB to tell them so. The notion of a large advertisement in his local paper has also occurred to me.

This may not be a concern for those of you who live in Ireland, but I can tell you that events like this make foreigners unwilling to do business with Irish firms. If there is no recourse when something like this happens, and if--as it clearly appears--Irish business ethics are so shabby as to easily permit this sort of thing, why would anyone risk doing business there? Why buy anything there? (It isn't just lessons--one woman purchased a CD which was simply not delivered, last we heard.)

If it bothers you that I have generalized to an entire country, consider that I have written to several sources in Ireland without a single response. Glauber's written to IRTRAD-L, but nobody there managed to get Scoiltrad to respond. Everyone seems to be covering for Scoiltrad's dishonesty.

They have our money and seem quite content to keep it.

I teach for a school that has an internet presence. We are accredited by the state in which the school is located. In addition to being required to demonstrate that our instructors have actual credentials and our courses are actually teaching what they purport to teach, we are required to post funds in escrow to cover student tuition in the event that we go belly-up. That protection covers students from anywhere in the world, and we include the name of the state office on our website and enrollment paper. If we all died tomorrow, all our students would be taken care of.

Kevin Krell appears to actually know how to get in contact with Conal. I would sincerely appreciate it if he could relay to him that I'd like a refund or, preferably, the remaining lessons of the beginner flute series crammed onto a disk and mailed to my home.

And, please, reassure him that I have no intention of expecting any assessments. It's bad enough to go through that misery with someone who gives a rat's patoot, much less someone who doesn't.

Better yet, if Scoiltrad is out of business, then they're not likely to care much about folks copying their works. So, I'll be equally happy if some kind soul who HAS the alleged beginner flute lessons (I still don't believe any more than the first two existed), I will be thrilled to pay you to mail a copy of them to me. PM me for the address.

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:56 pm

Peggy wrote:
Conal is a respectable gentleman.
I'm one of the people he stiffed, and my Mastercharge can't put a charge-back through because they're not there to charge. They tell me I'll have to track him down myself.

That worries me. I could really use this cash right now, like I said, $200 is a fair amount of money for me. Still have not heard from VISA since faxing them the information, but I hope I don't get the same result.

As to whether Mr. O'Grada is a gentleman, no comment.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:50 pm

Brian,

Hmmm, I was snarky up there, wasn't I! Oh, well. Nobody's immune from behaving unpleasantly at times.

After much digging on the WorldPay website, I found that they may be able to contact the store where you made your purchase (Scoiltrad). The do consider complaints in allowing a store to continue using WorldPay. I wrote to them. Perhaps you might want to write, as well.

https://support.worldpay.com/shopper/st ... ation.html

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:03 pm

OnTheMoor wrote:
Peggy wrote:
Conal is a respectable gentleman.
I'm one of the people he stiffed, and my Mastercharge can't put a charge-back through because they're not there to charge. They tell me I'll have to track him down myself.
That worries me. I could really use this cash right now, like I said, $200 is a fair amount of money for me. Still have not heard from VISA since faxing them the information, but I hope I don't get the same result.

I don't know how it works with Visa, but I used my Gold Mastercard to rent a car from Budget Car Rentals in September and they tried to cheat me by adding $275 in bogus charges (the 3rd time they've tried it in 3 years, so I was watching for it). I notified Gold Mastercard, provided the documentation, and they refunded the money to me because they guarantee you can use their card without worry. If they can't get their money from the vendor, they just eat their loss.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:22 pm

People have strong feelings where their pocketbook is concerned.

You definitely have a right to be upset when you have paid money and received no service or product.

I will not subscribe to your interpretation of Conal O'Grada as a crook, however. Surely there are alternative explanations that don't involve malice or averice?

To me, sadly, the most likely explanation is that Scoiltrad simply went broke. Doubly sad, because it makes it that much less likely any such service will ever be offered again.

I definitely understand your concern, and I hope you recover your money quickly and without further difficulty.

--James

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:52 pm

Thanks Peggy, I was actually thinking that today at work. I was also wondering why VISA couldn't just contact Worldpay??? Let me know what they say to you, I'll write too.

In my case, it will make me VERY angry if VISA says they can't do it because the site is gone. I called them almost as soon as Gary replied to this thread and they said "You have to wait 30 days". So if I get "You waited to long"... well I'm gonna... I'm gonna.... do nothing since they probably could care less.

Yeah blackhawk, it's the same deal with VISA, the problem here is that there isn't that much evidence that Scoiltrad actually existed (in VISA's view), and they can't be contacted at all. Plus the only "receipt" we have is an e-mail and an account #.

I said "no comment" because I really do have no comment. I'm unsure of Conal's position at Scoiltrad. From what I can gather, he was a founder of the company, in which case I will hold the exact same opinion as Peggy. If, on the otherhand, he's just the poor schmuck they hired to teach classes.... I'd still like to hear from him on what the hell happened. BTW, has anyone talked to any of the OTHER musicians???