amplifier? pignose?

[BillChin]

Today, I played my new used Cheiftain D outdoors. It seems like people could hear me, but I got the idea to do a search on amplifiers. Many people like the Pignose. For those reading along that may also be interested, the Pignose runs on six AA batteries or an optional AC adapter, street price around $80 ($10 more for adapter). It has 5 watts of power and a built in speaker. I have some questions:
How much does the 5 watts actually do? It seems like plenty for indoors, but outdoors it seems like it would be good only for 10 feet or so (disclaimer: I know next to nothing about this stuff).

One person reports that the original batteries lasted many years, can others verify this? Or are rechargeable batteries a good idea?

I have a mic, a Sony ECM (t-shaped) with a clip on accessory. The Sony has been a good mic when using it with my voice recorder.
+ Bill

[Wombat]

Bill, I'd be a bit careful about going there. I've never owned a Pignose but when I want to take the mickey out of the snobs in a Sydney vintage guitar store, I go in and ask very loudly if they have any Pignose amps. I'm not kidding, I did that one day as a joke and was told in hushed tones that carrying stock like that would be bad for their image.

If I'm not mistaken, they date from the 70s and were used by guitarists to get heavy distortion before the general availability of stomp boxes. So, if you aren't aiming to distort your sound, you might have picked the wrong amplifier. I seem to remember Frank Zappa using them quite a bit.

[Jeferson]

There's a fellow who plays Chinese folk music on an erhu in a downtown park. He plays it with emotion, a visible passion. He's very good. We cycle through the park regularly, and we used to stop to listen to him play. This has been a summer tradition in our family for almost ten years.

A couple of years ago, though, he went out and bought an amplifier much like the one you mention. I agree with you, it's not a whole lot louder, but the concept of unnecessarily amplifying the music has taken a bit of the charm out of his playing, in my mind's eye. I wish I could put my finger on it. The scene just seems somehow contrived.

There's something innocent and beautiful about someone passionately playing their instrument outside. I like being part of the audience, and I like doing the playing. I'm just not a big fan of amplifying the sound unless I'm part of a group that plays so loud that just one of us needs a bit of a boost to be heard among the rest.

So, Bill, I'd encourage you to keep playing au natural. If you're in a spot that's got lots of street noise, then you may find you need amplification, but I'd think it unnecessary in most situations.

Jef

[Byll]

Bill: There are many small amplifier/speaker combinations out there. Even Marshall makes one...Most are more expensive than the Pig. In my studio, we have used the 30-year old design of the Pignose in so many ways. They can sound amazingly clean, or dirty, depending on how they are driven. Up-close micing is possible because of zero AC hum. I love them. The five watts play subjectively loud, because of an efficient speaker. I feel there are better units, however - I repeat - they are significantly more expensive. Check out the powered Galaxie Hot Spot for my favorite...

However, I tend to agree with other posters. If you need the true AMPLIFICATION of your sound, go for something much bigger - such as the Carvin Stage Mate... If all you need is REINFORCEMENT, the Pignose will do the job. BUT, going completely acoustic lends itself to a much more traditional 'world-view'. As Harry Chapin used to say, it is with the use of microphones and amps that we begin to go wrong...

However, mileage varies...

Best.
Byll

[Wombat]

As Harry Chapin used to say, it is with the use of microphones and amps that we begin to go wrong...

We have to be careful here. The advent of the microphone meant goodbye Al Jolson, hello Sarah Vaughan. Better than a fair deal IMO.

For those not familiar with her, Vaughan completely mastered microphone technique, moving it around to emphasize chest and head tones and to change timbre in ways that would be completely impossible without something to amplify the sound of the voice as emenating from different parts of the body. A pragmatic device became the medium for a new art. I'd say the same of electric guitar. What's more, you don't lose the old art; nothing stops people singing without mics or playing accoustic guitars.

Of course, I don't think for a minute that you and the others don't know this. For an art form that doesn't need amplification, it's hard to see how a mic could enhance that very art form. I'm with all those who hold this view.

BTW, welcome back Byll. I hope the operation went well and that you are on the way back to a full recovery.

[Tony]

There are a few models of Pignose. Here's a 10 watt version:
http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i- ... S0000.html

[Tony]

Signalflex mini cube
http://www.jdmusic.com/signalflex_mini_ ... le_gui.htm

[Joe_Atlanta]

Most online dealers now offer a 30-45 day trial period, so you can give it a work out and only be out the shipping. If you're serious about it, go ahead and get the rechargable model (hog 20). They're only a few bucks more, loud enough to be useful in more situations, and the charge lasts a long time.

As others have noted, best to use it to just enhance your volume if you have to play in noisy situations. Nothing more annoying than a really loud street musician. Maybe a better idea is to search a bit more for a quieter corner or doorway.

[Miwokhill]

That's right, what Joe just said, and if you have the big guitar outlet center near you they have a 30 day cash back/ exchange as well. I don't know if they have pignoses but another route to consider are the amps specifically designed for acoustic instruments. -Don't know if these would be best or even if they have battery powered versions of these. -mike

[BillChin]

Thanks for all the replies. So far not a one that is using the Pignose and is happy with it. I find that revealing considering how popular it is, and how long it has been around, and its relatively low cost.

Amplification is a compromise of sorts. Here is my thnking: the Cheiftain is loud enough to be heard, and my Susato D almost so, but the other whistles don't have enough volume, especially the low whistles.

At this point, I don't think an amp will be used enough for me to justify the expense.

I played the Cheiftain again today--in a noisy indoor setting. At one point the audience stopped all their chit-chat to listen. That is a big indicator to me, when everyone is actually listening. Then I squeaked the one high B in my song and the magic was broken I think it went well, considering I've only had the Cheiftain a couple of days. It is quite a bit different than all the other high D's with oversize holes and copious air requirements. I think it will also turn out to be my preferred whistle for windy conditions.
+ Bill

[jim stone]

I think the Chieftain D will be heard and then some
without assistance. I played a Chieftain low D
on Venice Beach in LA and was heard fine.
The Susato C is quite audible, too. I've played
with a background of automobile traffic and
cut through. It helps to pitch things high on
the C whistle.

Concerning low whistles, a good piece of advice Loren
gave me once is that the flute is a whole lot louder
than a low whistle. This is one of the reasons I learned
to play the flute. I can be heard well enough on the
street with a D flute. (Again I often pitch things high
on the street.) A G flute/fife is louder still.
Bb fifes can be heard for blocks, if it
comes to that.

[Miwokhill]

It might be a matter of going into a music store, Guitar Center or whatever, and trying a few amps out. The unfavorable comments about Pignoses may be on the mark but you may want to check them out; they are portable enough and that's a plus. I went into a guitar store once and some guy was jamming through a Pignose and like someone had mentioned, he was really playing some pretty heavy distortion, without an overdrive box, just the amp. -So maybe that doesn't seem right for a whistle amp. You may well be able to get a nice amped tone out of a Pignose though by not cranking it up so much. The overdrive also probably had alot to do with turning the amp way up and then just using a little volume on the guitar. So I wouldn't dismiss them without giving it a try. And you always have that return option. -mike

[Wombat]

The problem with amplification has a lot to do with mics as well as amps. The best mics for picking up whistle signals are probably condenser mics that are not very directional. These won't do for street use as they'll pick up far too much background noise. Most of us use Shure 57s and 58s for vocals and wind instruments on stage but wouldn't use them in a studio.

[s1m0n]

I used to busk in the subway in Montreal with my wooden flute. To be heard, I plugged a cheap "lapel" type microphone from radio shack into a pignose, and then attached it to my flute, just enough up from the soundhole so it was out of the wind. Elastic bands held it on without harming the flute.

This provided excellent amplification without distortion as long as I didn't turn it up beyond halfway.

As far as I know, they're making contempory copies of the seventies pignose, which is what I had. It was a smaller one than the one pictured above, probably some kind of "classic"

I don't think I've ever changed the batteries. I used it daily for a summer and then not at all since. I dunno if the batteries still work.

Cheap alkolines worked 2-4 hours a day for about three months with no apparrent loss of power, under the conditions I describe.

I also used to know an erhu player who used one, and several other buskers.

I dunno what they're making these days, but I'd recommend that setup for busking. It had enough power; much more and the police would have been moving me on.

[Joe_Atlanta]

Thanks for all the replies. So far not a one that is using the Pignose and is happy with it.

Hmm, the impression I got was not that folks are unhappy with the pignose, but rather, unhappy with the idea of amplification. Byll spoke of using one in the studio and I've had a Hog 30 (for bass) for a couple of years that works great in a lot of situations. As others have said, there are more expensive alternatives, but if the Pignose is all you need, it works.