You think "high end" whistles are expensive?

[Wombat]

"whatever the market will bear". Supply and demand.

That's part, but a recorder is more complex too. Especially the Baroque ones, with tons of intricate decorative turning. The Baroque also have tapered bores, which are harder to make. Recorders require larger pieces of exotic woods, etc.
Maybe Loren will chime in on this one ,as he works for a superb recorder maker.

I'm really a bit confused about this. I have a tenor recorder which I bought from Beth (Avanutria) for, from memory, around $100. I only decided to bid when it had gone to eBay so I guess that's market price. But it looks good and plays well and has no blemish that affects playability. Now I don't have a wooden whistle that is worth so little and my wooden flutes, keyed and unkeyed, are worth much more again. Looking at my whistles and my wooden flutes I can see where the extra work has gone into the flutes. The recorder looks so different—perhaps it's the choice of wood and the finish—yet clearly considerable work has gone into it, or so it seems to me.

[izzarina]

I know the instruments you mean. "First Act" is the brand, at least here. I got a First Act guitar for someone for Christmas. It was smaller than a standard guitar, but other than that, her instructor says it's not a terrible beginner's instrument.

This is good to know. My daughter wants to learn to play guitar, and I don't want to spend a fortune (that I don't have anyway) on something if she's not serious. Thanks Wanderer!

[Wanderer]

This is good to know. My daughter wants to learn to play guitar, and I don't want to spend a fortune (that I don't have anyway) on something if she's not serious. Thanks Wanderer!

You're quite welcome. Such were also my thoughts when I bought the guitar

[Loren]

That's part, but a recorder is more complex too. Especially the Baroque ones, with tons of intricate decorative turning. The Baroque also have tapered bores, which are harder to make. Recorders require larger pieces of exotic woods, etc.
Maybe Loren will chime in on this one ,as he works for a superb recorder maker.

There is a huge amount of handwork (labor) that goes into the making of a top hand made recorder, many times more work than what goes into a whistle. Even more so when keys are involved (as on tenors and lower pitched). I'm down to 4 minutes of PC time, so I'll try to go into details at another time.



Loren

[RonKiley]

The Sams here sells the flute for $129. I have wondered if it was any good. A friend of mine got a very decent flute at a yard sale fro less than that.

Ron

[rh]

I know the instruments you mean. "First Act" is the brand, at least here. I got a First Act guitar for someone for Christmas. It was smaller than a standard guitar, but other than that, her instructor says it's not a terrible beginner's instrument.

This is good to know. My daughter wants to learn to play guitar, and I don't want to spend a fortune (that I don't have anyway) on something if she's not serious. Thanks Wanderer!

not to butt in here, but you'd probably be better off buying something from elderly instruments for virtually the same price -- you can be sure the instrument is set up properly (very important especially for beginning players), has a warranty, and you're not encouraging the predatory business practices walmart is famous (or infamous) for.

my $.02

[Walden]

not to butt in here, but you'd probably be better off buying something from elderly instruments for virtually the same price -- you can be sure the instrument is set up properly (very important especially for beginning players), has a warranty, and you're not encouraging the predatory business practices walmart is famous (or infamous) for.

my $.02

In fairness to Wal-Mart, the waranty practice has only changed relatively recently... well after Sam Walton's death. They had the most liberal of all return policies... no questions asked, no receipt required, and no time limit. People were returning worn-out air conditioners, and exchanging them for brand-new ones. Their new policy... stinks, but no worst than most.

[cowtime]

That's part, but a recorder is more complex too. Especially the Baroque ones, with tons of intricate decorative turning. The Baroque also have tapered bores, which are harder to make. Recorders require larger pieces of exotic woods, etc.
Maybe Loren will chime in on this one ,as he works for a superb recorder maker.

So they're like a Bussman or an O'Riordan in the whistle world then. And they still cost MUCH less tghan even a bad set of pipes.

And the pipes still cost much less than a Charles Walter piano............(which I really, really, n-e-e-d.......

[talasiga]

Yeah, but you can get several keys out of a single recorder. Even I can.

Yeah, but you can get several keys out of a single whistle. Even I can.

Really? I find it to be a few, vs. several.

One is talking about key signature and the other about tonic key. Typical American argument - arguing about different things as if they were the same thang.

[OutOfBreath]

I know the instruments you mean. "First Act" is the brand, at least here. I got a First Act guitar for someone for Christmas. It was smaller than a standard guitar, but other than that, her instructor says it's not a terrible beginner's instrument.

This is good to know. My daughter wants to learn to play guitar, and I don't want to spend a fortune (that I don't have anyway) on something if she's not serious. Thanks Wanderer!

I would strongly advise you to avoid those First Act guitars at Wally World - you might get lucky and get a decent one but the quality and setup on them varies widely. For the same price or only a little more you can get a Squier or Samick, or even a used Mexican made standard Strat. Those are still not great but you have a better chance that the guitar will be playable especially if you buy from a reputable dealer. A reputable dealer will set it up so it is at least playable. You can also take along a knowledgable friend and pick the best of the litter at a guitar shop. At Wally World you're buying a box.

If you buy the First Act you can expect that it will at least need to be set up and adjusted and if you have to have a local shop do that it's going to easily cost you the difference in price. The First Act guitars really are toys, when you get right down to it.

It's very important that a young beginner get a decent instrument to learn on. Would you buy a kid one of those cut-off out-of-tune bubble-carded whistles Dale mentioned here a while back? Buying a First Act guitar is almost that bad (I say almost because you do have a chance of getting a playable, if barely, First Act guitar while those whistles obviously had no chance of being playable).

Learning the guitar is orders of magnitude more difficult than learning whistle. If I had a dollar for every youngster who became discouraged and gave up solely because their first guitar was a piece of cr@p I'd retire today.

[Wanderer]

I would strongly advise you to avoid those First Act guitars at Wally World - you might get lucky and get a decent one but the quality and setup on them varies widely. For the same price or only a little more you can get a Squier or Samick, or even a used Mexican made standard Strat. Those are still not great but you have a better chance that the guitar will be playable especially if you buy from a reputable dealer. A reputable dealer will set it up so it is at least playable. You can also take along a knowledgable friend and pick the best of the litter at a guitar shop. At Wally World you're buying a box.

Guess I just got lucky then. Must be living right

Disclaimer: I know nothing about guitars...Other than stringing and tuning, I don't even know what is meant by "set up" here in this context. I tuned it, the guitar instructor proclaimed it acceptable, and we were all happy. I'm more than willing to concede that I got lucky, and would indeed listen to those more knoweldgeable than I (note posts above) about getting a better beginner's instrument for the price, if I was in the same position again.

[Wombat]

I would strongly advise you to avoid those First Act guitars at Wally World - you might get lucky and get a decent one but the quality and setup on them varies widely. For the same price or only a little more you can get a Squier or Samick, or even a used Mexican made standard Strat. Those are still not great but you have a better chance that the guitar will be playable especially if you buy from a reputable dealer. A reputable dealer will set it up so it is at least playable. You can also take along a knowledgable friend and pick the best of the litter at a guitar shop. At Wally World you're buying a box.

Guess I just got lucky then. Must be living right

Disclaimer: I know nothing about guitars...Other than stringing and tuning, I don't even know what is meant by "set up" here in this context. I tuned it, the guitar instructor proclaimed it acceptable, and we were all happy. I'm more than willing to concede that I got lucky, and would indeed listen to those more knoweldgeable than I (note posts above) about getting a better beginner's instrument for the price, if I was in the same position again.

You got lucky. VERY lucky. I'm guessing you didn't check the action, check the neck for warps and other nasties, check that it was in tune all the way up ... and so on. A set up involves adjusting all the adjustables to make it as playable as possible. This involves optimisation: you might prefer a more difficult action in order to get better tone. A beginner will probably want to go for the easiest action attainable whithout fret buzz and the like.

My first guitar made my fingers bleed. I replaced it after six months. This is not the way to go. I might have given up except that nothing on earth was going to prevent me from playing guitar.

Pay a little more, if you can't test for the things I mentioned bring along someone who can and make sure a set up is available or part of the deal itself and factor it into the price. There are some real bargains in the world of cheap guitars. The major problem is that those of us who can spot them don't need them and those who need them can't spot them.

[Darwin]

My first guitar made my fingers bleed.

Ditto. It was a Sears Silvertone, and the strings were so far above the fingergboard that it would have made a nice harp. A friend who played in a band came over and tried it out. He told my mother that it was totally unplayable, and I ended up with a nice little Martin 00-17--all mahogany, (just $95.00 in 1960). It was a great little guitar that was destroyed by a three-year-old niece two years later while I was off in Basic Training.

I bought a $200 guitar for a grandnephew for Christmas a couple of years back, and it was surprisingly good. However, I worked my way through several before settling on the best of the lot.

For myself, though, I have one in mind that's about $3000 more than that. I wonder if you can visit the Collings factory in Austin and buy direct. Anybody know?

[dubhlinn]

Outofbreath said
" Learning the guitar is orders of magnitude more difficult than learning whistle. If I had a dollar for every youngster who became discouraged and gave up solely because their first guitar was a piece of cr@p I'd retire today."

I'd just like to say that I agree with that ten thousand fold.
Slan,
D.

[brewerpaul]

Outofbreath said
" Learning the guitar is orders of magnitude more difficult than learning whistle. If I had a dollar for every youngster who became discouraged and gave up solely because their first guitar was a piece of cr@p I'd retire today." ,
D.

My point exactly!!! Since the so called "high end" whistles are such a relative bargain, everyone should have at least one of them to learn on right from the start. Several would be even better!

just kidding-- I've actually steered several newbie players AWAY from buying one of my own whistles until they've learned to play at least a bit and were therefore in a better position to judge just what qualities they really want in a whistle.