Ivory embouchure find - a good bet?

Julia C · Post by **Julia C** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:09 am

Hello all,
Might I seek your guidance....lurking in an antique shop near me is a 19th cent blackwood 8 key, no makers' mark, with an ivory section for the embouchure and nice big silver keys rings & caps, a very manageable (to me) embouchure cut, and.... no cracks

The bad news is, the lever of the long f key is broken in half & half lost, it needs recorking & padding (no problem) and the brass slide is stuck fast together. I could not shift it and neither could a heavily muscled and tattooed bystander (male)I have read McGee's advice on this & I am game to try.
Would this be a reckless and foolish purchase for the asking price of £90 / about $160 US - probably less if I haggle?
Can you get pads and springs and keys anywhere or do you make them from raw materials?
It's very handsome!

Tempted,
Julia C

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:20 am

get it Julia, it sounds like you like the flute, the price is good, and repairing the long F key is easy for a repair person, as well as the slide.
can you post picture of the flute?
good luck, eilam.

pandscarr · Post by **pandscarr** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:22 am

Did it play at all? You could seal the holes with tape or blue tack, and add a bit of thread to the joints to improve them - and see what it sounds like?

£90 is very little for a good flute - but if it needed a lot of work, all new pads, new key etc. etc. it could end up costing hundreds more...

Where abouts are you?

regards.

pamela

Markus · Post by **Markus** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:20 pm

If the ivory headpiece is uncracked, you're in luck. The vast majority of these Meyer-styled flutes (From the ivory headpiece I figure it's Meyer-style) have cracked through the whole length of the headpiece because of the metal lining.

In summer I paid 150 EUR for repadding, -corking, fixing a couple of big cracks (including the headpiece) of what used to be an unstamped nach Meyer flute that I got for free..

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:29 pm

That sounds like a good deal to me, too. Is the whole head joint ivory or is there just an insert around the embouchure?

You can always tie down the long F for a while (hey, you've still got the short one), repad yourself with silicone (do a search on this board, it's not too hard a process), and try a few drops of a penetrating oil to loosen the slide.

Or, you could pay a pro to get all the above in tip top shape. Basically, for a fully keyed flute that you like in playing order, paying 150 euro or so to get it into shape isn't much, and your repair price sounds like it would be less with no cracks! Total investment of aroudn $300 USD? Sounds like a possible steal!

I envy all you folks across the pond with your junk shops still hiding wooden flutes! Where I live, the only old flutes available are either silver boehm or end up being oboes or recorders that the seller knows nothing about. Oh, there is the rare Bb fife about here, too, but I'd sound funny playing Bb fife in a normal Irish session...

Eric

Julia C · Post by **Julia C** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:34 pm

Yes, Pamela, it does play, nice clear sound & easy too, not a hissy old embouchure, & quite loud. I am not a connoisseur tho having not met too many flutes . Oddly the embouchure is a similar shape & size to my Tipple! and esaier to play than my friend's Boosey Pratten .No notes below E because of the leaky long F key.

And the ivory section is about 2.5 inches long with blackwood above & below, so the head itself is in 3 sections black/white/black with silver rings between. The Gsharp key is angled. All the keys are kind of big.

Eric, I'll keep my eyes open & let you know what I find. I'm bound to find more than I need. I used to do this with old banjos & have a banjo hospital at home now.My last junkstore bargain was pretty good, a cocuswood 8 key , but someonehad enlarged the embouchure. Still it played ok for a total of $270 after restoration.
After these comments from you guys....I'm even more tempted! Worried about the stuck slide though. Will most repairers take this on?

Julia C

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:23 pm

Julia - are the keys Block mounted? by the foot you could probably know if it's made in England, Germany or France. Pewter plugs?

You could have a maker put a bushing and recut the embouchure in your other flute if you like that flute, it would be worth it.

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:35 pm

So I'm curious, what the cause of cracking on the ivory headjoints. Does it contract with time?

Julia C · Post by **Julia C** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:01 pm

Hi Eilam, the keys are post mounted, it's very very like the Meyer flutes on Rick Wilson's pages, right down to the dinky ferrule at the end of the foot. Only, not so much ivory - I guess that's why it's not cracked- it's not been looked after for years I 'd say. The ivory is very yellow (nicotine stains methinks!!)
Pamela, I'm just north of London! Far away from you what a pity we can't flute together.
Still tempted....
Julia C

Tom O'Farrell · Post by **Tom O'Farrell** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:10 am

well winters coming on and youll need something to do so go for it, since it already plays and the embouchure suits you well enough you're ahead of the game already. I used to live in Abbots Langley and know a fellow there that would be the ideal man for fixin' it up for you, if you need him let me know and I'll try to find out (through the church) if he is still around.

Goldie · Post by **Goldie** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:01 am

Tom O'Farrell wrote: I used to live in Abbots Langley and know a fellow there that would be the ideal man for fixin' it up for you, .

The Swan and The Compasses used to be my regular drinking hole in my teens and very early 20s. I was born and lived in Garston which was great as I would cycle to the pub and freewheel most of the way home. Who worked on flutes there?

Julia C wrote: The ivory is very yellow (nicotine stains methinks!!) .

You may well find that it is the natural patina of the ivory as it yellows with age anyway.

Colin

Julia C · Post by **Julia C** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:34 am

Thank you Tom, that would be great to know a good repairman locally. When did you head off for colder climes?

Julia C

Tom O'Farrell · Post by **Tom O'Farrell** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:41 pm

I left England back in the 60's, now I'm trying to retire absurdly early, but it's harder than I anticipated, clients hang on, and on etc. Hope to spend real time in Ireland soon. The fellow in Abbots Langley is Dick Ruth, he lived on "The Crescent" last time I met him, about 10 years ago, so if Julia does buy this flute I will find out if he is still around, he's older now so I don't know. He's a well know church stalwart. Possibly the most decent man I have ever known.

Markus · Post by **Markus** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:27 am

So I'm curious, what the cause of cracking on the ivory headjoints. Does it contract with time?

Many people - including myself - think it's the metal lining.

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:13 am

Ivory, like wood, moves a lot. When a head is lined with metal, the two elements move at a different rate, and so one cracks, I've seen metal rings on tenons crack as well (well at least the solder line opened). Andrew (Why haven't we heard from him lately?)was going to buy the nicest Monzani flute I have ever seen, the head was unlined, but it had a crack that went the distant of the slide, and looked like will keep growing wit time.
I think Ivory is more porous then wood and at the embouchure cut (where you want it the least) there is exposed end grain that absorbs the moisture.