sort of OT - Homeland Security and Irish musicians in the US

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:29 pm

I'd been meaning to pass along this excerpt from an article about Dervish. I'm curious is others on C&F have heard or encountered instances of Irish or other musicians skipping the US because of homeland security producures.

From a very Positive Bosotn Globe article on Dervish - 10/01/04

"(Brian) McDonogh (Dervish mandola plater) says one reason more Celtic bands do not tour here is that it's become increasingly difficult and costly since 9/11. A stringent visa process requires scheduling personal interviews at a US embassy months in advance. It's also been much easier to tour continental Europe since the Euro was established.

But according to (Earle) Hitchner (who writes for the Irish Times and The Wall Street Journal) the downturn of Celtic bands coming here has more to do with the aftershock from "Riverdance."
" `Riverdance' was its own agent of self-destruction," he says, "because it created false expectations for the popularity of this music. People figured they could make money with anyone who carried a fiddle, and glutted the market with cheaper and cheaper compilations to the point that people got turned off by it."

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:55 pm

I know of several people who had severe problems getting their visa to go on tour in the US.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:39 am

It's not just ITM bands that are having a hard time getting visas to enter the U.S.(if they can get them at all), visual artists, photographers, writers, tourning dance/music companies, musicians from around the world are finding next to near impossible to enter the States after 9/11, especially if they are non European. Or the delay in getting visas is long, they give up.

I have come to the conclusion that the rest of the world should start doing to the United States citizens, artists etc, dragging out visas applications, finger printing and photographing US travellers etc. as the US does to the rest of the world. I know Brazil and several other countries are doing it.

On PBS the other night, Charlie Rose had two guests that have reported on the decline of foreign university students applications at all levels (about 30 %) of undergraduate, graduate, doctoral and post doctoral because of the visa situation to the U.S.. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England and European univerities would like to thank the U.S for the influx of the best in the world has to offer in. research.

MarkB

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:55 am

MarkB,
How can we maintain our superiority complex if other countries start requiring anything from us and treating us similar to everyone else. The idea is simply preposterous!!!!! Now be quiet and do as I say, not as I do!!!!

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:31 am

Ah, good morning Sir Nick, glad to see someone else up this early. I have edited my original post, that makes the original post even more interesting.

I live in a border city in Canada, Windsor to be more specific, and the federal government is spending millions of dollars in restructoring the rail and truck traffic to Detroit and beyond, to pre screen rail cars and trucks entering the U.S. There are massive traffic jams going on for kilometres in this city. Well I would like to see the same done to U.S. rail and truck traffic entering Canada, that way the Lodge, Jeffereson, I-75, I-96 in Detroit would become a sea of pollution, and grid lock in Michigan, also at every border crossing, you never know what direction a terrorist would come from.

There is over 2 billion dollars in trade goods traffic crossing the Detroit River every year. The busiest border crossing in the world!

The U.S. forgets that Canada is second leading exporter of oil and natural gas to the U.S. after Saudi Arabia, wanna play ball?

MarkB

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:05 am

MarkB wrote: On PBS the other night, Charlie Rose had two guests that have reported on the decline of foreign university students applications at all levels (about 30 %) of undergraduate, graduate, doctoral and post doctoral because of the visa situation to the U.S.. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England and European univerities would like to thank the U.S for the influx of the best in the world has to offer in. research.

MarkB

Papers in here reported a few months ago that the number of Irish students going to the US to study on student visa has dropped from over 5000 a few years ago to several hundred last year.

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:11 am

I feel like we've firmly anchored this discussion into the political arena. So I'll just continue on!
The entire concept of a free society (U.S. historically) is dangerous. You can't have one without the other. When you try and protect freedom, you've taken it away.
The underlying question is, "Why are terrorists threatening the U.S.?" Demanding Oil? Forcing Religion? Forcing Politics?
My personal feelings are that an open society is worth the risk. I dread every flight I take not because of the threat of terrorism, because of the "guilty until proven innocent" attittude of the government laws here to protect my "undeniable right" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Those feelings apply to the boder, visa issues as well.

Kuranes · Post by **Kuranes** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:12 am

MarkB wrote:
The U.S. forgets that Canada is second leading exporter of oil and natural gas to the U.S. after Saudi Arabia, wanna play ball?

MarkB

Canada can't play ball like that. We've signed trade agreements with the US that forbid our government from reducing our oil exports to them, unless we also reduce our consumption in accordance.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:29 am

Kuranes wrote

Canada can't play ball like that. We've signed trade agreements with the US that forbid our government from reducing our oil exports to them,

Canada should play like that!

Don't be naive, the U.S. will break any treaty it likes and only needs others in the world when they want something and it is to their advantage.The US doesn't want a level playing field unless it leans in their direction.

MarkB

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:20 am

I guess the gas guzzling Hummer, Expedition, King Cab Dooley Pick-up driving soccer Mom's are the real criminals here!! Let's get 'em!!!! Watch out, I hear they take step aerobics and are suffering from various forms hormonal imbalances. They'll go postal on ya!! Or, I guess now we could say, "Go soccer Mom on Ya!"

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:55 am

MarkB wrote:On PBS the other night, Charlie Rose had two guests that have reported on the decline of foreign university students applications at all levels (about 30 %) of undergraduate, graduate, doctoral and post doctoral because of the visa situation to the U.S.. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England and European univerities would like to thank the U.S for the influx of the best in the world has to offer in. research.

This has been pointed out in a number of journals and trade magazines. A few years ago, over half the PhD candidates in the US in the hard sciences were foreign students, so a 30% drop is a really severe hit. (The two largest sources of foreign graduate students are China and India -- not quite North Korea and Iraq, but countries on a targeted list.) Research universities have positions for incoming students that are going unfilled, which has huge ramifications. Greater teaching loads for the students who are able to matriculate, a decrease in productivity in the research groups, and, 5 years down the line, unfilled R&D positions in industry, academe, and government labs. The situation in the biosciences is not as dire, but they're still feeling the impact.

Great way to remain competitive, eh?

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:56 am

The truth is SirNick that North America is running out of easy access oil and natural gas, WE in North America can't go on the way we are going, it isn't sustainable even with oil from Eyerack! And eventually we will all be held hostage to a barrel of oil from somewhere else. I guess we could swap visas for a barrel of oil from all those who want to enter this continent.

I was asked for a passport last week when crossing the border to the US, by a US customs agent,by agreement, US citizens and Canadian citizens don't need passports to cross the border, nor do they need visas, put this egg head was defending Amurica, and got upset when I reminded him of this agreement, so he sent me and two others to Immigration, were the US Immigration looked at our drivers licenses/birth certificates and told us to go on our merry way.

There is an interesting book by Jane Holtz Kay, titled: Asphalt Nation; How the automobile took over America and how we can take it back. It's interesting reading.

MarkB

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:04 am

I think the discovery of metal seems to be the downfall of us all. Has industry been worth the cost?

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:30 am

SirNick wrote:I think the discovery of metal seems to be the downfall of us all. Has industry been worth the cost?

Some have questioned the whole evolution thing, and have advocated going back to the ocean, from where we should never have emerged in the first place.

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:38 am

glauber wrote: Some have questioned the whole evolution thing, and have advocated going back to the ocean, from where we should never have emerged in the first place.

It's hard to get a De-Evolution movement going though. Everyone fights so hard to get rid of the uni-brow and hairy backs. Although the loin cloth does have a certain appeal!