Is this possible or am I insane?

[sturob]

I don't know if the crookedness affects it all that much. Every time I've ever seen anyone (sweeping generalization) play a bansuri, it was completely crooked compared to what we'd consider "orthogonal."

Then there's the opposite, who might be our own Harry Bradley, who sometimes rests the headjoint on his shoulder and whose head is then perfectly perpendicular/tangential (depending on how you want to talk about it) to the headjoint.

Stuart

[artsohio]

I dug out the old tuner and experimented for some data.

The results... Stuart seems to be right. Even when I move my bottom lip to the right, the intonation doesn't change (although my tone sank to new depths!). Someone suggested I check out the condensation marks on a metal flute. I did this and found that my airstream seems to be centered so I'm compensating somewhere.

The good news, I don't have to have plastic surgery to correct my embouchure

The bad news, I'm still flat and apparently can't blame it on my anatomy

A lot of good suggestions were made and I'll be experimenting for a while. I'll be pushed in, rolled out, head up, lips tight, diaphragm supported, flute up, shoulders down.... I guess no more playing sprawled out on the couch watching "Starting Over"!

Thanks for the help and for listening to me babble.

[Cathy Wilde]

I'm crooked, too! In fact, I've recently been experimenting with flute placement specifically because of that .... in my case though, tuning doesn't really seem to be a problem, but I'm not happy with my tone.

Anyway, despite years of private lessons this piece of advice we used to get from our college marching band director, of all people, has so far served me best (although it does make me feel like a fourth-grader getting ready to launch into "Red River Valley") ... but here goes .....

.... Make sure your head's straight and the flute's parallel to the ground. As someone said earlier in this thread, no droops whatsoever.

It's hard to do in a crowded pit, but the sharpening/brightening effect is amazing, at least in my hearing & experiences.

OK, off to practice "Red River Valley" now.

xo,
cat.

[artsohio]

.... Make sure your head's straight and the flute's parallel to the ground. As someone said earlier in this thread, no droops whatsoever.

I have been experimenting and the lack of drooping is helping which is ironic sense I've been concentrating on NOT holding it at a 90 degree angle for ergonomic reasons. Arghh!

So many details for something made out of a piece of wood. I think I'm going to start even further back than "Red River Valley" and try to do everything right this time. "Hot Cross Buns" anyone?

[Tipple/fipple Flutist]

http://music.emich.edu/wp/flute99.html

I came up with this info, most of it you know.. but I found this part interesting...

It is especially important to maintain proper support when playing soft, a dynamic in which flutists often decrease the amount of support and as a result, play flat. When playing soft (and when running out of air at the ends of phrases), try pushing out your abdominal muscles and chest instead of letting them cave inward. This, coupled with the jaw and bottom lip movement forward, will help keep the pitch from going flat.

With all the advised contortions we have for good playing, it's remarkable we get any sound at all out of these things on our own!

[bang]

Anyway, despite years of private lessons this piece of advice we used to get from our college marching band director, of all people, has so far served me best (although it does make me feel like a fourth-grader getting ready to launch into "Red River Valley") ... but here goes .....

.... Make sure your head's straight and the flute's parallel to the ground. As someone said earlier in this thread, no droops whatsoever.

does it make sense to separate these two factors: straight head vs flute parallel to the ground?

i'm a big believer in the straight head part, particularly as an essential part of an upright, balanced & relaxed posture that makes deep, easy breathing possible.

personally (and in observing others) i haven't found that a small amount of flute "droop" changes anything for better or worse tonally. i play maybe 15 degrees off from parallel, & up to around 30 degrees doesn't seem to make much difference. am i missing something here?

tnx /dan

[Cathy Wilde]

It's funny, this discussion of various positions -- I've been pondering them myself, as I've *never* in 30 years of playing had any desire to put any flute on my shoulder until the Murray. Not a C flute, not a Bb, not a G alto, not the Hammy which is bigger and heftier, not the Ormiston which is shorter and has a lined HJ so is therefore ostensibly heavier on the head end .... but suddenly, I find myself curled around the Murray like I'm trying to attach it to my earlobe or something.

WHY IS THAT????????

I've noticed this phenomenon with other players, and true to form just saw Dervish the other night, and there was my hero Liam Kelly with flute on his shoulder, neatly tucked under his left ear.

So while I still sound like a lame-o, I guess maybe I at least I look cool?

BIG ol'

Hey. Isn't "Hot Cross Buns" a duet or round or something? Everybody in the pool!

[Doug_Tipple]

Janet, I agree with Nelson. If your embourchure that you feel most comfortable with causes you to play somewhat flat, then you need to adjust the headjoint, by moving it in more. If you are already maxed out on your silver flute, then you have a problem. However, on many ITRAD flutes with a tuning slide, this should not be a problem. With a tuner, make the appropriate adjustment so that you are on pitch. Also, with ITRAD be comforted by knowing that many good players are not exactly on pitch. I think that relative pitch is OK. So you are 20 cents flat, so what!

[artsohio]

So you are 20 cents flat, so what!

I like the sound of that! It might become my new mantra

[esharp]

do you folks ever put a tuning meter on your instrument and see where you blow? Im new to fluting and thats the 1st thing I did to learn about my flute.

[artsohio]

do you folks ever put a tuning meter on your instrument and see where you blow? Im new to fluting and thats the 1st thing I did to learn about my flute.

I go through phases of worrying about different aspects of playing. When I'm working on intonation, I do my long tones with a tuner. When I'm working on tone, I put the tuner away and do my long tones in the mirror to fiddle with what helps there.

I think practicing is like working out. You can't work every single muscle in regards to strength, flexibility and endurance every single day. You have to shuffle your priorities and try to keep everything in rotation.

In my case, that keeps everything equally bad

[Gaaslaj]

Hi Janet. I've had to play the flute to the side of my mouth, since my upper lip comes down in the middle, and that section flaps in the wind (so to speak), if I play centered. Also, if I play centered, the airstream becomes divided, and that's not very productive to a good tone. Someone said that a well know musician (Nugent) plays on the side. Don't know if that would help you. And besides, I'm playing sharp! So hey, maybe it would.... J.

[bang]

Janet- a couple of ?s and an ! (if you're still in the mood for this :-)

idea: one pretty sure fire way to raise your pitch is to decrease the area of the embouchure hole that your lower lip normally covers. if you're now covering much of it (?), you might try learning to blow w/ more of it open. even small changes in the size of the exposed embouchure hole make a significant difference in overall pitch.*

questions: are you more flat at higher or lower pitches/registers? or, are you roughly the same amount flat all over? anything else significant about the nature of your flatness?

enjoy! /dan

*be warned that this is the advice of someone who's currently tuning the flute sharp and intentionally playing "flat" in search of the "one true reedy tone!" ;-)

[talasiga]

Here is a puzzle for you all!

One of the bands I play with has a harmonium at A-444 and everyone tunes to that if they can (if they have tunable instruments). Now my Irish flute (Seery blackwood) is easily tuned to that with its tuning slide. Its good it has a tuning slide because if its at 448 or something everyone will notice it (including me).

Now some of my bansuri-s (East Indian bamboo flutes) are (in the current weather) at A-448. Although sometimes I do discern that I am out, no one else notices this. In fact the band all loves my bansuri-s and whenever I ask the sitarist or the guitarists or the fiddler, hows this (playing a note), they say, "fine" but, if the Irish flute is a teeny weeny bit out they let me know, no qualms.

I cannot believe this. Yet it happens to me 3 times a week. Any comments?

[elizabeth]

Hi Janet,

Working with a tuner is a great habit to get into. We are never as in tune or rythmically "tight" as we think we are--just record yourself some time.

I think Dan has a good idea--you might experiment with uncovering the hole just a little bit more. I have a crooked embouchure and blow into the right side of the hole but I don't think that affects pitch much if at all--I have always had a good sound (on the metal flute) even with a crooked embouchure.

One other thing you might try... I have done this myself and for a few other people as well: shorten the head joint at the tenon end. But get a really good technician with a lathe or don't do it at all. I am one of those people who had to play with the head pushed all the way in just to keep in tune with other instruments (in an orchestra). I finally got sick of it and turned about 1 and 1/2 millimeters off the end so that I could occasionally "push in" to raise the pitch.

You sound as if you have lots of intellectual curiosity and a passion for the flute. I'm sure you will solve this problem and move on to the next stage.
Keep up the good work!

Best wishes,
Elizabeth