Bob Dylan for Noble Prize for Literature?

[jim stone]

Dylan's Nobel Nomination Sparks Debate

1 hour, 8 minutes ago Entertainment - AP


By MATTIAS KAREN, Associated Press Writer

STOCKHOLM, Sweden - How many roads must a man walk down, before you call him a ... Nobel Prize-winning songwriter? It's a question being asked increasingly in literary circles, as the annual debate over who should win the Nobel Prize in literature — to be announced Thursday — tosses out a familiar, but surprising, candidate: Bob Dylan (news).


AP Photo



While many music critics agree that Dylan is among the most profound songwriters in modern music, his repeated nomination for the Nobel Prize has raised a vexing question among literary authorities: Should song lyrics qualify for literature's most prestigious award?


Christopher Ricks, co-director of the Editorial Institute at Boston University — and an avid Dylan fan who has written scholarly papers on the songwriter's work — said the question is "tricky."


"I don't think there's anybody that uses words better than he does," said Ricks, the author of highly regarded works of literary criticism such as "The Force of Poetry" and "Allusion to the Poets," as well as books on T.S. Eliot, Lord Alfred Tennyson and John Keats.


"But I think his is an art of a mixed medium," Ricks said. "I think the question would not be whether he deserves (the Nobel Prize) as an honor to his art. The question would be whether his art can be described as literature."


It definitely can, said Gordon Ball, an author and literature professor at the Virginia Military Institute in Lexington, Va. — who has nominated Dylan every year since 1996.


"Poetry and music are linked," Ball said. "And Dylan has helped strengthen that relationship, like the troubadours of old."


The Nobel Prize in literature is given out annually by the 18 lifetime members of the 218-year-old Swedish Academy. Candidates can be nominated by members of other literary academies and institutions, literature professors and Nobel laureates.


Each year, the Swedish Academy receives about 350 nominations for about 200 different candidates, which is narrowed down to about five finalists. The winner is announced in October. The finalists, except for the winner, are not revealed for 50 years.


Speculation in the literary world is that the 2004 winner will be a woman, something that has not happened since 1996, when Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska was honored.


Some names emerge time and again, including Lebanese poet Ali Ahmad Said, also known as Adonis, and several women, including Danish poet Inger Christensen, novelists Margaret Atwood of Canada, Algerian Assia Djebar, American Joyce Carol Oates and Britain's Doris Lessing.


Ball said he first nominated Dylan after the writer Allen Ginsberg urged him to do so. Ginsberg, a Beat poet whose literary circle included Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady, nominated Dylan in 1996.


"Dylan is a major American bard and minstrel of the 20th century" who deserves the award for his "mighty and universal powers," Ginsberg wrote in his nomination letter, which Ball read to The Associated Press.


The literary value of Dylan's texts are also supported by The Norton Introduction to Literature, a textbook used in American high schools and universities, which includes the lyrics to Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man."


University of Virginia professor Alison Booth, who co-edited the anthology, said she doesn't "have any trouble at all considering (Dylan) for a literary interpretation."


"Literature has historically been defined very broadly," Booth said. "I don't think we're testing some radical limits of literature by putting that in."


Several collections of Dylan's lyrics have also been published as books.

Still, most Nobel watchers say it's unlikely the Swedish Academy — traditionally drawn to novelists and poets who are often out of the mainstream — will expand the scope of the prize to include songwriters.

"If so, it would be in a fit of marvelous free-mindedness," said Svante Weyler, head of one of Sweden's largest publishing houses, Norstedts. "It would be very surprising."

But not entirely unprecedented.

In 1997, the prize went to Italian playwright Dario Fo, whose works also need to be performed to be fully appreciated, some say.

And when Winston Churchill received it in 1953, for his historical and biographical writings, the academy also cited his "brilliant oratory" skills.

While the academy never discusses individual candidates, Carola Hermelin at the academy's Nobel Library said songwriters are not excluded from the prize.

"Song lyrics can be good poetry," she said. "It depends on their literary quality."

But Weyler said he was skeptical about including songwriters.

"Then you're categorizing everything that includes words as literature," he said. "Literature should not have to be read by the author for it to be good."

____

[jim stone]

My love she speaks like silence,
G F C
Without ideals or violence,
G F C
She doesn't have to say she's faithful,
Dm F G
Yet she's true, like ice, like fire.
C
People carry roses,
G F C
And make promises by the hours,
G F C
My love she laughs like the flowers,
Dm G C
Valentines can't buy her.

In the dime stores and bus stations,
People talk of situations,
Read books, repeat quotations,
Draw conclusions on the wall.
Some speak of the future,
My love she speaks softly,
She knows there's no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all.

The cloak and dagger dangles,
Madams light the candles.
In ceremonies of the horsemen,
Even the pawn must hold a grudge.
Statues made of match sticks,
Crumble into one another,
My love winks, she does not bother,
She knows too much to argue or to judge.

The bridge at midnight trembles,
The country doctor rambles,
Bankers' nieces seek perfection,
Expecting all the gifts that wise men bring.
The wind howls like a hammer,
The night blows cold and rainy,
My love she's like some raven
At my window with a broken wing.

[dubhlinn]

As one of the greatest wordsmiths in the world Dylan is deserving of the Nobel prize.Many great songs do not stand up on the printed page but Dylans imagery is on par with some of the worlds most respected poets.
His ability to describe the deepest and most heartfelt emotions is legendary.No one in modern music has done more to highlight social injustice with such passionate eloquence. Many of his songs contain more detail and images than award winning novels-"Lily ,Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts " from Blood on the tracks,for instance,could be made into a full length film such is the economy of words contained in the song.

His 1966 "novel" Tarantula can be held alongside Joyce in it's impossibly beautiful stream of conciousness style of imagery.
He is the coolest man on the planet and if anybody,anywhere deserves this award it's Bob.

Slan,
D.

[Darwin]

My love she speaks like silence...

I'm sold.

[chas]

I'm sure Dylan could have won a Noble Prize for literature, but Alfred B. Noble was too noble, so he stifled his invention of a stable explosive, only to have his original notes discovered a decade later by Nobel. So Noble, who would have loved Dylan, never made enough money to endow a major prize.

He did endow a prize that awards, once a decade, a tube of brass, nickel-plated brass, or aluminum (the Swedes are hoping for another sponsor will pony up enough to allow the occasional awarding of a wooden prize), with holes and a mouthpiece. Word on the street in Stockholm has it that the Wisely guy might win for the 2010's decade, but the Brits and Germans are lobbying strongly for a joint award for Overton and Goldie. The Brits had been lobbying for Harper, but he was dismissed due to the fact that he also makes rifles, which the Noble committee is strongly against, given Mr. Noble's pacifist philosophy.

[jim stone]

oh, well I never could spell.

[DarnTootin]

Got my vote, too.

:adminok:

[Jack]

Bob Dylan can't sing.

[Wombat]

Well I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.

Here's my nomination.

Must be recited in a Sarf Lundun accent for true appreciation.

I can’t get no satisfaction,
I can’t get no satisfaction.
’cause I try and I try and I try and I try.
I can’t get no, I can’t get no.

When I’m drivin’ in my car
And that man comes on the radio
And he’s tellin’ me more and more
About some useless information
Supposed to fire my imagination.
I can’t get no, oh no no no.
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say.

I can’t get no satisfaction,
I can’t get no satisfaction.
’cause I try and I try and I try and I try.
I can’t get no, I can’t get no.

When I’m watchin’ my tv
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be.
Well he can’t be a man ’cause he doesn’t smoke
The same cigarrettes as me.
I can’t get no, oh no no no.
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say.

I can’t get no satisfaction,
I can’t get no girl with action.
’cause I try and I try and I try and I try.
I can’t get no, I can’t get no.

When I’m ridin’ round the world
And I’m doin’ this and I’m signing that
And I’m tryin’ to make some girl
Who tells me baby better come back later next week
’cause you see I’m on losing streak.
I can’t get no, oh no no no.
Hey hey hey, that’s what I say.

I can’t get no, I can’t get no,
I can’t get no satisfaction,
No satisfaction, no satisfaction, no satisfaction

[talasiga]

Dylan's Nobel Nomination Sparks Debate

1 hour, 8 minutes ago Entertainment - AP


By MATTIAS KAREN, Associated Press Writer ......................
.......................................
While many music critics agree that Dylan is among the most profound songwriters in modern music, his repeated nomination for the Nobel Prize has raised a vexing question among literary authorities: Should song lyrics qualify for literature's most prestigious award?


Christopher Ricks, co-director of the Editorial Institute at Boston University — and an avid Dylan fan who has written scholarly papers on the songwriter's work — said the question is "tricky."


"I don't think there's anybody that uses words better than he does," said Ricks, the author of highly regarded works of literary criticism such as "The Force of Poetry" and "Allusion to the Poets," as well as books on T.S. Eliot, Lord Alfred Tennyson and John Keats.


"But I think his is an art of a mixed medium," Ricks said. "I think the question would not be whether he deserves (the Nobel Prize) as an honor to his art. The question would be whether his art can be described as literature."


...........................
____

Dear Mr Ricks,
A deaf person who cannot hear the music can read his lyrics and it will be sheer poetry and it will not be medium to any degree.
Yours sincerely,
Talasiga

[Bloomfield]

Elfriede Jellinek got the prize. Good choice imho. I think most of her stuff is out in English, too. Start with the Piano Teacher.

http://almaz.com/nobel/literature/2004a.html

[CobraCmdr]

this is off topic from this already off topic thread but...

I saw dervish last weekend in boston, and they did a Dylan song "Boots of Spanish Leather", which I think is also on one of their CDs (Dervish's CDs i mean, although it's probobly on a dylan CD too!)

spectacular. highlight of the show, which was a great show all around!

They are a must-see in my opinion if they come to your town!

[Koss]

"Ireland: 1 Point
Spain: 2 Points
Switzerland: 3 Points
...
...
...
...
and finally:

Dylan: 12 Points !"
:roll: :roll:

[John S]

While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.

John S

[jim stone]

Well, Dylan didn't want the smelly old
Nobel Prize anyway. 'There's no success like failure!'
Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!