OT: Northumbrian Pipes

BoneQuint · Post by **BoneQuint** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:57 pm

I'm thinking of getting a set of Northumbrian pipes. I love the gentle, buzzy, poppy sound. I'm guessing some people here have experience with them.

My first thought is that a D set would be best, it'd be similar to the D whistle I already play, and I could play fiddle tunes or Irish tunes or whatever with other musicians. But it seems that D chanters only go up to F#? Would it be possible to fit more keys to get up to, say, B? And a D chanter wouldn't work well if I wanted to play traditional tunes with other Northumbrian musicians, right? They'd probably be tuned to "F+". And there's the issue that the traditional repetoire is designed for the fingering of a G (or F+) chanter.

It seems I'd have to decide if I wanted to play primarily Northumbrian music (which I do like), or other styles.

Has anyone heard Northumbrian smallpipes in an Irish session? I presume they might be a bit quiet for a larger session, and I'm not sure if they'd be welcome or not. Just curious, really, I doubt I'd be good enough to bring them into a session any time soon.

Also, if I could find a good deal, I might get a sent just to try them out, especially if I could resell them at little loss. Does anyone have a good condition used set, or a lead on where to find one?

Bill Reeder · Post by **Bill Reeder** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:08 am

I heard Ray Sloan playing an NSP concert G set with a group of Uilleann pipers a few years ago in North Hero. His pipes were very distinctly audible among the rest. Recently, I heard Andy May playing NSP along with Uilleann pipes and either border pipes or Scottish smallpipes ( I can't remember whether it was one or the other or both). The blend was pleasing to the ear, but I don't know whether Andy was playing a D or a G set.

I used to try to play Irish tunes on NSP, but it just didn't sound convincing to me. I'm much happier playing Irish tunes on Uilleann pipes these days and manage to sneak in a few Northumbrian tunes on them as well.

I've never played a D set of NSP so I can't comment on how well they lend themselves to Irish session tunes. Where's John Liestman when you need him?

beckitybek · Post by **beckitybek** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:23 am

D smallpipes are the 'flat' pipes of the NSP world. They are beautiful, low and sweet sounding - unfortunately even with a fully keyed set you can't go up above f#
Most NSP'ers that want to play in sessions tend to play a 'g' chanter or set. They are usually fairly loud and cut through in their tone - you also don't have to do any transposing to play with other instruments (ie when you play g on the chanter it plays g!). The only draw back is that they are quite small with the fingerholes relatively close together which can be slightly awkward if you've learnt to play on a traditional 'f' set like I did!

A friend (yes another female piper!) plays NSP with an Uilleann piper - she uses Dave Shaw's pipes and they are the nicest NSP's i've seen or heard in a long while.

It is possible to play Irish tunes on NSP's so long as you dont want to be a traditional NSP'er...I did it for years before I could get hold of an uilleann set, but its not as satisfying as playing irish tunes on the real thing

liestman · Post by **liestman** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:46 am

OK Bill, you dragged me away from baby diapering to answer.

You and Becky are of course right. In short, a G set of NSP have ths same range typically as a D whistle and are clearly what you want if you intend to play Irish tunes on the instrument, with other musicians. They play best in G, D, Am, and Em (sound like familiar keys?) and range from D below the staff (or lower with more keys) up to B (and sometimes C) above the staff. In fact, if you want to play anything with other musicians they are the way to go. Chris Ormston does amazing Irish tunes on a G set (and a Dave Shaw set is a very fine G set indeed). The nice thing about NSP, apart from playing Northumbrian music, is that they have a relatively neutral sound, so they can fit in to an Early music situation, backing up a singer, contradance stuff, you name it. Contrast that to uilleann pipes, which in my mind have such a distinctive (and wonderful) sound that they always sound like Irish music no matter what they play (awaiting incoming arrows). So I think it is uilleann if you want to play Irish and Northumbrian G set if you want to "play the field".

And yes, D sets are the flat sets of Northumberland, except that they are more rare over there than over here in the US. I truly drool over their sound, to the point where right now, I only play my D set for myself, my G set with others, and made a simple 7 key F chanter only, just for going to workshops with, so I can sell off my unplayed F set eventually. But in Northumberland and on recordings, F sets rule the day. Hope that helps.

BoneQuint · Post by **BoneQuint** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:35 am

beckitybek wrote:D smallpipes are the 'flat' pipes of the NSP world. They are beautiful, low and sweet sounding

Those are tempting qualities. Would you say the D pipes are quieter? Or at least "sound" quieter (if you know what I mean -- less strident)?

Hm, the D set might be nice for those fiddle tunes that go down to G that can't be played on the whistle. And I could still play traditional Northumbrian tunes, they'd just end up sounding lower, right? (Essentially transposing G tunes into D, or D into A).

So how are the Burleigh pipes? They seem pretty reasonably priced, and look good.

beckitybek · Post by **beckitybek** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:31 am

NSP D pipes definately 'seem' quieter in a session setting (although not on a one for one basis if you know what I mean). I think thats down to tonal qualities and the fact that they are lower pitch. G pipes are more strident and 'cut' through in a session situation but are shriller to the ear on their own, being very bright sounding. Having said that I remember years ago a band called 'Red Shift' when Dave Shaw (pipemaker) used to play his D set with them and that used to hold its own against boxes, dulcimers and singing.

Yes of course you'd still be able to play traditional Northumbrian tunes , they'd just come out lower in pitch thats all. The only thing is getting used to the finger span - but thats the same whenever you play different sets of pipes, and I reckon in some respects its easier the greater the span difference (ie from an f chanter to a d chanter as opposed to from an f chanter to a g chanter) because its so significantly different that you just get on with it. When I played my G chanter after the F it was so similar that I'd forget which set I was playing and misfinger and squeak and leak all over the place until I'd been playing them for a while!

Nowt wrong with Burleigh pipes, though if i had a choice and the cash I'd go for a Shaw set any day....but thats just me!

benwalker · Post by **benwalker** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:12 am

I started on NSP. Played em all wrong like Uillean's.
Didn't go down well with the NSP community.......

beckitybek · Post by **beckitybek** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:46 am

benwalker wrote:I started on NSP. Played em all wrong like Uillean's.
Didn't go down well with the NSP community.......

Yeah, me too - they don't like that do they!

John S · Post by **John S** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:21 am

I play regularly with Adrian Schofield who has a concert G chanter and I think this is probably your best bet for sessions though he's always grumbling about the tight spacing, so have a go on a few different makes to see if you can manage it.

And don't forget folks the UK C&F Session/Gathering in Manchester on Saturday the 20th of November.
Details on the Whistle Forum.

John S

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:01 am

I grew up with the sounds of the NSPs so I still have a fondness for them. My neighbour was a pipemaker and he would play every day. It is a nice sound close up, and even nicer carried on the wind.

I have a couple of basic sets he gave me free.

The NSP community seemed very conservative. Even though the NSPs can bend notes and do other ornamentation, the NSP society insisted on the 'one note, one finger' method of playing. I thought it made them sound more like a stylophone than a reed instrument. Beepity beep.

The best piper I ever saw was a guy who busked around Newcastle on the NSPs and Uilleann pipes.
I do not recall his name, but he had a tattoo on the side of his head and his NSP playing was electric.

Mukade

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:21 pm

mukade wrote:I do not recall his name, but he had a tattoo on the side of his head and his NSP playing was electric.

I hope no one got hurt!

Patrick

benwalker · Post by **benwalker** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:46 pm

mukade wrote:
I do not recall his name, but he had a tattoo on the side of his head and his NSP playing was electric.

Yep that would be Mr Schofield as mentioned. He had a set of NSP with regs. They sounded wonderful. Like a little harmonium.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:55 pm

Hiya...

Adrian is one heck of a guy....I too got my start on the NSP's.
Here's a pic of Adrian..

and...

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:58 pm

...it would seem the tatoo from the side of his head has spead a bit.

Good symetry, however.

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:13 pm

JES wrote:it would seem the tatoo from the side of his head has spead a bit

This is quite typical amongst the Civil Service.

djm