Flat Back D help

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:23 pm

Hello all. I need some pretty basic advice from all you piping gurus. I have a beautiful sounding new reed which is lovely to play but!!.......WHen I get all the other notes in concert tuning, the back D is inevitably flat unless I really up the pressure until my arm almost drops off and the D becomes unstable. Up to now I have always just fiddled with bridles etc on other reeds, until eventually I got the damn thing in tune (usually having to compensate slightly with tape on A and G holes, which I don't mind as long as the chanter is in tune with itself) Can you all give me your advice as to what exactly to do to rectify this problem, it is most annoying to my ear....thanks

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:56 pm

Hi Droner,

There's a wealth on info on this very topic on this forum. You could try the following two discussions -

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 47e89545f6

which is in response to something I tried to sharpen a flat back D by taking the reed apart and witdrawing the staple by about 2mm.

and

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=22181

This one talks about many ways to cure a flat D prior to taking a file to your Back D tone hole - the absolute LAST resort.

Good Luck,

DavidG

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:18 pm

thanks v much....It's more that up to now I have been fidling and messing around not really knowing how I arrive at a the correct tuning. Any help is appreciated, I seem to be going through a paricularly bad run of temperamental behaviour on beghalf of my pipes and I am at the end of my tether

maw · Post by **maw** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:22 am

Hang in there Droner and keep hold of your vision in times like this.
Best wishes
Maw

billh · Post by **billh** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:37 am

Droner wrote:thanks v much....It's more that up to now I have been fidling and messing around not really knowing how I arrive at a the correct tuning. Any help is appreciated, I seem to be going through a paricularly bad run of temperamental behaviour on beghalf of my pipes and I am at the end of my tether

whatever you do, don't do anything irreversible to the chanter itself. There are about 500 possible reed adjustments and any number of them can affect the back D in some situations.

You haven't told us much about the chanter or reed, perhaps we could be of more use if we knew more details.

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:18 am

It is a Froment chanter and reed . the reed plays beatifully but the back D is flat no matter what I do and extremely sensitive to pressure. It's almost impossible to play higher octave notes with back Ds thrown in as it is so weak and sensitive to any pressure. I wouldn't even dream of doing anything to the the chanter but I would like not to have to go back to Kenmare especially when the reed has a lovely sound and all other notes are sweet...Thanks for your replies

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:16 am

Sounds to me like all you need to do is open up the reed a bit using the bridle?

That'll sort out your pressure sensitivity and give you a sturdier back D.

Have you ben playing long? Sometimes these things take some getting used to.

Patrick.

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:02 pm

thanks lads for your help..... I kept foolin around with the reed for the best part of an hour and a half today and low and behold it seems to be playing in tune with a pretty steady back D now. (A good bit of tape needed on A and G all the same) But I can suffer that........aaaaaahhhhh now for some practice without the annoyance of bung notes at last!

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:57 pm

You may also want to think about easing up on the pressure just a tad when playing your back D, see what happens to the tone.

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:13 am

When i ease off the pressure the back D goes really sharp. It's close to in tune most of the time but fairly unstable ...Why do you think this is? It's a new reed, will it improve with time? should I just leave it alone now?

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:20 am

I find that thicker lips gives a more stable back D, but it sounds as if you aren't a reedmaker, so I won't recommend that you chop "2 spider's legs worth" off the tip of the reed....

I think you need to order a backup/warranty replacement for it, personally.

upiper71 · Post by **upiper71** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:28 am

According to David Quinn's "Piper's Despair" Flat back D's often occur in newer reeds, but almost all the times that it does occur; it's usually because the reed is leaking air at the sides of the reed blades(which can be glued) Sobo Glue TM...only at the sides a little OR at the seat of the reed where it enters the chanter, which hemp can be added at the staple end.

I've just made another reed with a flat D but sometimes you just have to play-it-in and over time it'll correct itself.

Keep all this in mind, first before for trying anything else; but I would personally try the latter first.

upiper71

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:42 am

I'm not sure I go along with a reed correcting itself as it's played in. Sure it will ease up playability wise and the tone will mellow and maybe the overall pitch will change, but if well made, these pitch changes are so negligible that you can't tell whether it's the reed or the current weather conditions. To alter a note, you have to alter the reed, it will not do it itself. Sure you may get a drastic change suddenly if there are splits in the tail that suddenly extend (or similar), and cause the reed to collapse or shut down a little, but this would usually be an overall effect not a singular one.
How about a rush up to the back D, oops, a Froment, you've probably got one up there already!!

Alan

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:00 pm

If you do find a leak at the sides of your reed, trying rubbing them along a chunk of beeswax. I get a little wary around bottles/tubes/brushes of glue when working with reeds, and as a result cannot truly recommend that approach. But there are those who swear by the practice and it seems to work for them. I guess it takes guts, which I have in a literal sense, rather than figuratively speaking.

upiper71 · Post by **upiper71** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:05 pm

Yes, I agree..it's not that I don't. It's just that I've used that on one reed in one instance, and doesn't necessarily work all the time for all the reeds.

I actually prefer the beeswax, or beeswax, mixed in with Cobbler's wax which is also stickier with a bit of..(10%) rosin.

Just trying to avoid you from making major repairs to it.

Good luck!

upiper71

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