Wide vs. Narrow Bore - Does Size Really Matter?

dfernandez77 · Post by **dfernandez77** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:39 pm

Greetings gentle people,

Ok, I sent these questions directly to Dale Wisely and Michael Burke just yesterday - but I'm just too darned impatient to wait for their reply.

Besides, since I'm Taoist I may as well follow the advice of the Christian cliche "There is wisdom in the counsel of many." Of course that would be assuming the "many" are informed.

I searched all over - even on Chiff & Fipple. I can't find an answer to this question. So I tender the following questions to you - the many - trusting you are informed.

What is the general difference in the character of sound and the technique of play for a narrow bore vs. wide bore of the same whistle?

What kind of player, or for what kind of play, would a narrow bore whistle be chosen as opposed to a wide bore whistle?

I want to buy yet another whistle - the bore size is my last conundrum to solve before making the purchase.

Thanks very much,
--
Daniel

KDMARTINKY · Post by **KDMARTINKY** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:44 pm

Both serve a purpose. I have both a narrow and normal sized brass bore whistle fron Mack Hoover. Her's the relate difference. The narrow bore takes less air and is quite (definitely not a session whistle). The regular bore is loader and is great for sessions. This is my opinion from playing both type of bores. Now if you ask me which I prefer.....it would be the normal bore for no other reason except I love playing load. If you ask my wife she would prefer me play my narrow bore so she can watch Las Vegas or some other tv program...then she banishes me to the sunroom.

OBrien · Post by **OBrien** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:29 pm

I've just started experimenting with narrow bore designs, based on a head joint that Gary Humphrey sent me some photos of. (He said I could use the design, because he doesn't make copper whistles any more.)

I'm using half inch brass tubing with 0.032 inch walls. The sound is very sweet and clear, but quieter than my wide bore whistles. The tone holes are a little farther apart.

lyrick · Post by **lyrick** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:36 pm

There are some past threads on this subject that have good information, such as http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ifferences, especially Michael Burke's comments.

Generally a wider bore compared to a narrow bore by the same maker will be louder, fuller, mellower, rounder than the narrow bore, while the narrow bore will be more responsive, you can play faster on it and ornaments pop better, it may be sweeter, but the sound will usually be quieter and thinner. The highest and lowest notes will be affected, too, I'm not sure how.

dfernandez77 · Post by **dfernandez77** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:49 pm

lyrick wrote:There are some past threads on this subject that have good information, such as http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ifferences, especially Michael Burke's comments.

Awesome. At the very least I have found I should have searched first. Thanks much - I appreciate both the fresh answers to my question and the answers in previous posts.

Thanks much!
--
Daniel

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:57 pm

Narrow Bores favors the higher pitches.

Given a set of 6 toneholes of the same diameter on two different tubes in the musically in-tune positions: The narrower bore whistle will have a higher cutoff frequency. This will allow higher pitches to be played if the bore variation is extreme. In less extreme cases, the spectral quality of the sound will allow more high frequency components in it. The wider bore will put most of the spectral energy to the lower notes and thus the low end will be power and weak high notes.
You can use the Window tuner program "Tuneit" to see what the spectral quality of a sound looks like.

On a Boehm Flute, the bore is very narrow when you compare it to a low-D, however a Boehm Flute is designed to cover several octaves. The average Low-D covers around two octaves. A narrow bore Low-D can produce more than two octaves in some cases. The wide bore might be limited to just two. In the tinwhistle world, it is sufficient for most players to have just two octaves so the wide bore is thus favored for strong sound and less range.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:55 pm

Ok, I sent these questions directly to Dale Wisely and Michael Burke just yesterday - but I'm just too darned impatient to wait for their reply.

Since when are Taoists impatient?

Besides, since I'm Taoist I may as well follow the advice of the Christian cliche "There is wisdom in the counsel of many."

What does Taoism have to do with Christian cliches?

So I tender the following questions to you - the many - trusting you are informed.

You are going to trust the rabble? Well, you needn't waste your precious trust on me, o' wise one, because I do not intend to burden you with my opinions. :roll:

dfernandez77 · Post by **dfernandez77** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:52 pm

Answers to your questions have little to do with whistling - and much to do with anything. I know very little about whistling - and a trifle more about Taoist philosophy so I will respond. :roll:

Since when are Taoists impatient?

Ever since they have been human - so quite a few centuries.
Ancient Taoist philosophy allows for the natural expression of humanness - with acceptance and humor.
It's Folk Taoism and Confucianism that espouses patience and extreme relative (historically speaking) "political correctness."

What does Taoism have to do with Christian cliches?

Easy answer - nothing and everything.
Consider Lao Tzu's (author of the Dao de Jing) version of the golden rule "Those who are good I treat as good. Those who are not good I also treat as good. In so doing I gain in goodness. Those who are of good faith I have faith in. Those who are lacking in good faith I also have faith in. In so doing I gain in good faith."
Now that's quite a bit more to chew on than Christ's (by King James English standards) sound bite "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." But I would say the quantum truth is similar. Good enough for my tiny mind.

You are going to trust the rabble? Well, you needn't waste your precious trust on me, o' wise one, because I do not intend to burden you with my opinions.

Sure I'll trust the rabble - why not. Karl Marx did and look how far he went. Hmmm.. maybe not the best example.

Anyway, my tiny mind tells me; trust (though often misplaced) is never wasted, I am not wise unless illuminated by your generous standards, and your opinion would be welcomed and not a burden.

Oh yeah! I bought a narrow bore whistle because I don't play well enough yet to need volume. Listening to me play - that would be a burden. hehe.

Peace y'all,
--
Daniel

happyturkeyman · Post by **happyturkeyman** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:02 am

Funny, the title of this thread reminds me of some spam I got about a week ago.

John S · Post by **John S** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:07 am

Hi Daniel, some of the cheaper Generation type whistles have bores that are too wide. This causes the bottom octave notes to be stronger, but also makes the second octave unacceptably Flat. Generations have this problem to a lesser extent than others and filling the space under the duct makes it a lot better.
I make my own Bodies for modified Generation tops using 1/2" Polystyrene model tube, which has a 1mm ish wall thickness (thicker than the Brass tube) and the results are very good.
If your going to by a "Wide" bore Whistle make sure that you test the octaves before parting with any money.

TTFN
John S

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:03 am

There is also a very slight difference in the feel of holding a wide or narrow whistle. I prefer the size of a Water Weasel or Humphrey wide bore to that of a standard Gen or Silkstone for instance.