Posts from Newbies

Lizzie · Post by **Lizzie** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:47 pm

I have been reading the thread Chiff and Fipple Level 2.
I can certainly relate to the old timers and experts tiring of hearing the same old questions from newbies over and over..and many of these require lengthy replies.

As a relative newcomer, I have certainly appreciated tremendously the help I have received here.

A question has come up that I would like to ask..however I hesitate to do so, because it has likely been asked before, although not since my time here. So I took myself to the archives to see if it had been asked. Well, the archives are huge and after an hour and only being about a third of the way through, I gave up.

So...my question is: would it be possible to somewhere post a list of the most commonly asked questions, especially by newbies and a reference to the threads dealing with these?

I suspect this would require some work, but I would be happy to help, or take on this task.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:53 pm

Just ask the question. You've made an effort to look through the archives, which is great, but don't be afraid to just ask the question. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to respond. You'll probably get the answer you need.

By the way, if every new person just combed the archives for answers to common questions, we'd never know you were here, and we'd never get to know you. So if that is what you're doing, post a hello and introduce yourself. You'll get at least a dozen replies welcoming you to the board. I suspect all of us have our nice moments.

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:01 pm

Personally, I prefer newbies who do their homework first, like reading up around the web and etc. They certainly ask questions with more depth and makes answering them more rewarding too. I know that the archives might seem rather dense, and that might discourages use of it, but if you know more about what you are asking, it will be easier for people to help you. (check out woodflute list's archives if you want to see really really dense and messy)

Sometimes, I've seen 2 of the same questions asked on the same page of the forum, which doesn't say much about people doing any homework at all.

Also, I appreciate it if newbies put more information in their post titles - thats what the titles are for. Lately theres these sets of newbie questions that have pretty vague titles. Things like "have a question", or "stupid question" and all are really funny in an redundant sort of way - every other post has a question. I'm not very inclined to read these newbie posts especially when the poster didn't bother to even summerize/hint what he is writing about in his title.

There are many extremely helpful, insightful and knowledgeable members on the board. However, if you're a newbie, I think you'll get more help if you help them to help you.

[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2002-03-16 00:17 ]

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:08 pm

On the topic of a beginner FAQ, I think thats quite a good idea. Something like Whistling 101

Mastersound · Post by **Mastersound** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:17 am

Some of the more experienced Mandolin Cafe forum members are currently working on a FAQ for newbies, starting with basic definitions and going on to deeper stuff. Strikes me as a great idea. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what to do a search for so a FAQ would be first port of call for newbies like me.

Captain Dilettante · Post by **Captain Dilettante** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 5:47 am

Keep in mind that there are three kinds of "newbies". Don't paint them all with the same brush - recognize that everyone is different, and you can't lump new user behavior into a single category and expect to "deal" with them effectively.

To give this analysis that scholarly, pop-psychological feel that Dale is so good at, I'll separate them into Types, with tongue firmly in cheek:

Type 1. New to tinwhistling, but experienced at Internet/Usenet usage. Tends to ask rather simple questions ("How do I finger a C-natural?") but will likely have exhausted traditional search tools on this forum and others. Note that the "Traditional Search Tools" consist mainly of this forum, a few other websites with long dissertations on saliva clogging, and lots of Usenet postings with the word "recorder" in them, so these users don't exactly have the World Book Encyclopedia at their fingertips.

Type 2: Experienced tinwhistler, but new to Internet forums. Tends to use smiley faces to incredible extremes, once they figure out the command sequences, but asks the more interesting questions and starts the better topics, as long as the established community is willing to gently educate him or her on posting ettiquite ("No, dear, you should not post your home phone number in a public forum, and it's nice that you can see the Virgin Mary in your Silkstone, but it's not really important enough to put it in all capitals, right?")

Type 3: New to Whistling, New to Posting, and probably age 13. Wild, hard to predict. Charitable users will refer to this type of user as "diamond in the rough". Less charitable users will use - er, less charitable terms. In dealing with this user, remember the phrase "we were all new once". Except for bodhran messages - for God's sake, flood the offender's mailbox with bodhran jokes until they go away.

i consider myself a Type 1, in case you're interested. I've seen my share of "check the archives first and don't bother me" responses on a variety of forums and message groups, and those respondents tend to be either naturally hostile/confrontational, or just burnt out. The hostile message only serves to make the poster feel better - it doesn't really help the newbie (who would have used the search tools if they had known they were there) and may alienate them or scare them off. It just goes to show that ill-considered, meaningless posts can come from either side.

On a more serious note: A forum FAQ is an excellent idea. Dale (and other whistle webmasters) have put together excellent tinwhistle FAQs already, but in reading this group over the last two months, I've discovered a wealth of knowledge that isn't found anywhere else.

DrRichard · Post by **DrRichard** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:13 am

On 2002-03-16 06:47, Captain Dilettante wrote:
On a more serious note: A forum FAQ is an excellent idea. Dale (and other whistle webmasters) have put together excellent tinwhistle FAQs already, but in reading this group over the last two months, I've discovered a wealth of knowledge that isn't found anywhere else.

Great idea yes. It would have helped me a great deal. "Pin" it to the top of the forum list, so the latest FAQ is always up top. Cover the basic questions, plus explain how to search the archives. It's an approach which should really help, I think.

One thing which really is important is that I think we can sometimes appear a little hostile to folks who enter and ask really naive questions, which can make people nervous to post. I think that that's a great shame, actually. Perhaps a FAQ will improve signal to noise, making us more tolerant of posts which we personally think are inappropriate.

Richard

PS: That said, I have no problem when someone asks a silly question, when that is driven by lack of knowledge. I mean, live and let live - if you don't like the thread, don't read it

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 8:19 am

The main C&F website doesn't exactly have a FAQ, but it's a good place to start. It has reviews of most of the major whistles, tweaking, other stuff, links to sites with some music background, etc. As well as info about gorilla breeding.

This is not related to this poster: one of the basic rules of netiquette is to read a forum for a week or more before posting. I have no complaints with questions from newbies, it's when someone posts a question that's JUST been discussed.

Charlie

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 8:21 am

I agree with Jim Mc--ask away. A list
of commonly asked questions would be
helpful to newbies, too. But if people
don't want to answer newbie questions,
don't. Plenty will and actually take
pleasure in it. Often I don't answer,
but others always do.
Speaking very personally,
for me the newbies matter, if anything,
more than I do. I've already
got what I need from the board. It's
a way we can be helpful to a bunch
of good people. Sad to see new people
apologizing for asking questions. Best

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 10:33 am

Reading this and the "Chiff and Fipple 2" thread, I have to say I don't entirely get it. Maybe because I'm not visiting as frequently as of old, but I fail to see this horribly and apparently generalized hostility which some seem to perceive. For what it's worth, and that ain't much, I've been around here long enough to qualify as an oldtimer, even if I wasn't already chronologically eligible. Compared to most of the message boards I've seen over time, this is unequivocally one of the most welcoming and tolerant of newcomers' questions. How would they learn otherwise, after all?

I seldom reply myself, not because I have any problems with the questions, but just because there are far better musicians here than me, and I'd rather be quiet than wrong.

A FAQ would be a great idea - and alas one that's probably not even remotely possible given the absolute size of the archives. It occurs to me that there *is* a way it could be done that wouldn't be as hard, and that's to do it as a compilation of future answers. IOW, ignore the past and start collecting interesting or basic questions and their answers now, posting it when it becomes useful and appending to it as new questions arise. I'm not volunteering, mind, just offering a way for someone with more time or energy to do it manageably.

It'd be nice, although it's probably a pipe dream, if all newcomer questions were a little more informatively titled. But when all is said and done, if you don't want to read or answer repetitive questions - don't open the bloomin' thread!

Frankly, I'd rather EVERY question or thread on the board was from some new whistler, young or old, with a question, rather than the disturbing flood of long, argumentative, and off-topic food fights which seem to be cropping up of late.

_________________
Nothing salves a weary soul like a cheap whistle.

[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Clark on 2002-03-16 11:58 ]

Feadan · Post by **Feadan** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 10:52 am

Well, Chuck, as I said last night before I retired for the evening, I realize that my C&F II thing was a stupid idea. Alas…I’m sure I’ll donate more of them in the future

Any way, JimMc wrote

By the way, if every new person just combed the archives for answers to common questions, we'd never know you were here, and we'd never get to know you. So if that is what you're doing, post a hello and introduce yourself. You'll get at least a dozen replies welcoming you to the board. I suspect all of us have our nice moments.

A very excellent point Jim! It’s is nice to know who is out there. Capt. D, you wrote

Type 3: New to Whistling, New to Posting, and probably age 13

I wouldn’t lock this type into such a young age bracket. I’ll bet there are a good percentage of over 40s who fit the bill of “New to Whistling, New to Posting”. Jim Stone, at this point I couldn’t agree with you more. Whistle FAQ for the messageboard is a great idea. But of course there will always be those who don’t read it and ask away anyhow. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be created though. Eldarion, I certainly understand your feelings about folks doing their homework but there are plenty of “Type 3” folks who wouldn’t even think to look for the search feature. I am certainly not saying this with you in mind but people like this really don’t need to be barked at or otherwise reprimanded for their ignorance as has happened in the past. Also, the search feature really isn’t perfect is it?

Cheers,
David

[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2002-03-16 12:21 ]