Help for a novice

[jeannette]

Hello everyone. Please be patient with a brief summary of us, since it may make a difference in your advice. Future posts will be brief. My husband is a musician - tenor and clarinet -bebop jazz on the tenor and classical to make you cry on the clarinet. I can name the notes in the treble clef and know the difference between a quarter note and a whole note.

I'm here instead of him because, after many years together, I need something different for a Christmas present for him. Last Christmas he brought home a Celtic Christmas cd, which was all we played, and both became infatuated with the tin whistle.

I've been to several web sites, which were all very technical and professional, and I don't know where to start. Since he doesn't know any more about the tin whistle than I do, I'll begin.

Please, can someone give me advice on where to start in choosing a tin whistle?

My heartfelt thanks for any advice.

[Stine]

Well, probably the fastest way to get information/advice is to go back through a couple of pages and check out all the newbie topics you can find. There's always plenty of useful information in those.

[Darwin]

Rather than just starting out with recommendations, I can think of a few questions to narrow things down:

1. About how much do you want to spend? There is not an absolute correlation between price and quality, but if price is a big factor, there's no point in people recommending the most expensive whistles. Of course, whistles are inexpensive compared to many other instruments. I'd say you can spend anywhere from about $15 to $300 and get a very useful whistle.

Another aspect of this, though is whether you want something more "traditional" or something that's also a bit of a work of art. The latter tend to be more pricey. For example, there are some very nice wooden whistles out there, but they tend to cost more than metal whistles of equal quality.

2. Would he be likely to play music that he already knows, or to take up Irish music for the whistle? If the former, some of the lower keys might be nice for jazz. For Irish traditional music (ITM), high D is the standard, and really the best to start with, I think.

If you think he'd like to take up ITM, at least a little bit, then you might consider including a book/CD combo that would bring out some of the special characteristics of that music.

3. Are you thinking of this as a sort of starter whistle that might lead to buying more later on? If so, a really decent, but not too expensive whistle might leave that a bit more open.

[BillChin]

Please, can someone give me advice on where to start in choosing a tin whistle?

Darwin's post is excellent input. A price range is a start, as is the type of music that might be played, fast or slow, and what genre. Almost every brand has its supporters and detractors and it can be bewildering to choose.

For something that goes back to the roots, something like a Clarke original (very close to the 1843 design), or a Generation brand whistle are some ideas. These are inexpensive whistles ($7 to $15). They may not be the "best" starter whistles, but are favored by many traditional whistlers. Your husband probably can coax a decent sound out of most whistles, given his background.

If playing with other instruments is the goal, being in tune is more important, and a tuneable whistle might be a better idea. Again, they start off inexpensively and climb up the ladder, though still cheap by wind instrument standards.

Here is another recent thread with a very similar question.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 3e7da781a6

[jeannette]

Thanks, Mike, for making some sense of this for me.

As to price, I would ordinarily never think of trying to buy an instrument for him. But this will be a brand new thing. A nice starter is what I need. If he takes to it and learns more about it, he can upgrade himself, (or his whistle) and will.

He has many years' collections of horns and music for jazz, plus what's in his head. He's newly taken with the traditional Irish and Celtic music, so that's the whistle he would want. The book/cd is a certainty that I hadn't thought of.

Summary: A six-hole whistle will be a new challenge for him. It can't be too pricey (art won't come into it now), but it does have to have a true pitch and good tone to keep his interest, since he'll know the difference.

I'll look forward to some advice.

Jeannette

[jeannette]

I've read the other posts, and they're way over my head. We are REAL beginners, ordering our first whistle.

Considering my husband's years on reeds and his ear for and knowledge of music in general, I need something more specific. I did pick up on a whistle that can be tuned.

With that, I leave it with you.

Jeannette

[DCrom]

I'd recommend the Clarke tutorial (by Bill Ochs) to get him up to speed fast - it covers the basics, has a good selection of tunes, and a CD that shows how the tunes should sound. (For him, this may be useful primarily for the stylistic touches, since he's already an accomplished musician).

For a decent first whistle -

nontunable: a Jerry Freeman tweeked Sweetone or a Dixon nontunable D (around $15). A standard Sweetone is even cheaper ($6) and still a very decent whistle.

tunable: A Serpent Polly D ($25) or Syn D ($35) or Susato Kildare (~$25)

I really like Generations, but they often need to be tweeked - easy if you know how, but an annoyance for someone starting out. Jerry Freeman has a very good tweeked Generation for $35 (this goes quite a bit further than the "standard" tweeks - he puts a fair amount of work into them). But at ~$5 each for a standard Generation D, picking up a couple as extras wouldn't hurt. Either finish (nickle or brass) is OK - I have a slight preference for brass, because I like the look.

Once he's played for a while, he'll probably know more about what he likes and doesn't, and can go from there. For instance, the Serpent Polly is pretty breathy, while the Dixon and Syn are purer. The Generations are a very traditional-sounding whistle, while the Susato is very non-traditional. We can talk about the difference for a LONG time, so I won't even attempt to chose a "best" whistle.

[Darwin]

Jerry Freeman has a very good tweeked Generation for $35 (this goes quite a bit further than the "standard" tweeks - he puts a fair amount of work into them). But at ~$5 each for a standard Generation D, picking up a couple as extras wouldn't hurt. Either finish (nickle or brass) is OK - I have a slight preference for brass, because I like the look.

I think I'm going to go for one of those, myself, to keep up my two-new-whistles-per-month status. (I may be in the poorhouse five years from now, but I'll have a bunch of whistles.)

I was really impressed with Tony Higgins' Jerry-tweaked Generation in nickel. (Of course, Tony's playing may have had something to do with that.) I like nickel. After 20 years in the Army, I can't resist polishing the brass ones, but I really don't want to do that.

[trisha]

If tenor sax is his thing, and clarinet too, I'd skip the delicate trad high D whistles for now and buy him a brass Burke whistle with Delrin tip. Perfect tuning, good volume but not OTT, great "bang for your bucks" or what ever we call "good value for money" over here in the UK.

www.burkewhistles.com and get him a wide bore or session brass high D if it's tradional music he wants to play. For jazz he'll want a Low Eb....a bit further on down the road.

Trisha, alto sax novice in my "spare time"

[jeannette]

With all the kind responses, I think I'm getting closer. I don't know what tweeking is, but Wayne spends almost as much time messing with reeds (soaking, trimming, shaving, discarding) and mouthpieces (twisting, adjusting, trading out) as he does playing, which is his great love when everything gets right. Sometimes I wish he played trumpet.

If tweeking is anything like this, I think he can handle it. He will want traditional music and the whistle to play it with, so I'm leaning toward the D whistle in brass. It still has to be good enough to keep his interest, but cheap enough to upgrade without guilt. The Generation caught my eye, but obviously others are very good. I'll need to know how to order the book/cd later on, not to mention the whistle.

Thanks everyone - but I'll have to pick your brains some more if you're willing.


Jeannette

[Darwin]

Generation seems to be the real traditional standard, but apparently quality control isn't all that good. If a player knows what he or she likes, and has a box of whistles to choose from, this is not a problem, but for those of us who order online, it's a bit of a crapshoot. Tweaking is a way of modifying a less than ideal whistle to get it closer to the ideal. There are a variety of techniques.

I've tried doing it myself on one whistle--an Oak--with rather poor results. That's why I decided to order my Generation from our own Jerry Freeman, who is the only full-time professional tweaker on the planet. (At least, I think that's what I read somewhere.)

Of course, you could just order a regular Gen and it might turn out to be perfect. Or, if it turns out to be a little less than wonderful, your husband might enjoy tweaking it himself--and there are lots of detailed discussions on C&F that can give him guidance.

I should have my Jerry-tweaked Gen within a week, I suspect, in which case I'll post something about it.

[BillChin]

... The Generation caught my eye, but obviously others are very good. I'll need to know how to order the book/cd later on, not to mention the whistle.
...


Jeannette

Dale has compile a nice list of online whistle shops:
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/Buying.html

Many of them carry Gens and the Bill Ochs' material. Your local folk music store may also carry Gens. The only potential problem is ordering a Generation and getting a "bad" one. Gens are mass produced and quality seems to vary. You can get a Jerry Freeman tweaked Gen to be on the safer side. It is bad enough to get a sour sounding whistle, but giving one as a gift seems like it would be more embarrassing. You can find Jerry on this board and email or personal message him directly. Jerry also sells whistles via ebay.
+ Bill

[BoneQuint]

I agree a Jerry Freeman tweaked Generation whistle in D would be a good bet. It's a solid instrument, for not a lot of money, but it still has the character of a traditional whistle. It's predictable, stable, and responsive.

You can email Jerry from his profile page: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/profile.php?m ... ile&u=1845
You can also get Tweaked Generations for $40 or so from The Whistle Shop:
http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/w ... weaked.htm

"Tweaked" means modified to be better than the stock instrument. Some minor adjustments can be done by just about anyone (although you'll need several cheap instruments to experiment on and lots of time to search this board for tips). More extensive modifications like those done by Jerry Freeman take a lot of experience and skill to accomplish.

I've played several instruments (brass, percussion, concertina) and many whistles, and I agree if he's an accomplished musician, a cheap instrument will leave him cold. I'd avoid the cheapies, like a Sweetone (even a tweaked one), a stock Generation, Feadog, Oak, Clare, and Walton, except to satisfy curiosity maybe (since they are only a few bucks). While they have their own charm and folky character, they'll probably sound thin and cheap to someone used to professional instruments.

A tweaked Shaw is a good traditional sounding instrument, but it's a bit rougher and can be tempermental, it's not very durable. A Water Weasel is a quality instrument with good tuning and responsiveness for $70, but it's a bit plasticy in feel and sound. The Susato is inexpensive and well tuned, but is even more plasticy -- while some pros use them, personally, I don't like them.

I've only tried the "Whitecap" from Mack Hoover, but it's very good...a brass whistle might be an even better bet, at about $55, and you can tell him to make it a bit louder than usual, his standard instruments are quiet and a bit touchy to play.

Another thing to consider is that you can sell most of these whistles to people on the board here for only a small loss if you don't like them.

[DCrom]

If you're going to go with stock Generations, buy several - they're cheap, and you feel a little less worried as you experiment with 'em.

I feel a bit better about Sweetones, both stock and tweeked, than BoneQuint, but I've never hard or played one that really knocked my socks off. What they are, mostly, is predictable and lacking in notable vices.

My current favorite D whistle is my Serpent Polly, but there are a large number of folks here who'd emphatically disagree - although it's a traditional-sounding whistle, it's from the breathy/chiffy end of the tradition (sort of like a Clarke original with an attitude). But it's one of the most predictable, in-tune, and easy to play whistles I own. I also love my Syn D, for when I want something purer sounding - either one of these might be a good choice. Or the Jerry Freeman Gen D. Or the Susato (louder and purer than the others).

What I'd recommend is getting one from the "good" list and several cheap whistles (maybe a couple of Gen Ds, a Walton's C, a Gen Eb or Bb . . .) to experiment with. You could do the "whistle" part of the gift for around $50. Add the Bill Ochs tutorial and you've got a good starter package.

[jeannette]

I've had to be away for a while, but I'm back and still dead in after a tin whistle for my husband. I've emailed Jerry Freeman about his tweeked Gen D's, now I'm thinking about a cheapie or two - maybe one Eb for comparison. Do you think I'm on the right track, and, do you think a case is important? I'm going to visit the shops now.
Thanks again for your patience and all your help.

Jeannette