GHBs at Irish cultural events

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:47 am

The sad reality of it is that most North Americans don't know the difference between English, Irish, Scottish anymore than they do Portuguese from Spanish. Its all some distant place "over there". Most Irish people I know who come here have no desire to have anything to do with their old culture, so there is little or nothing in the public's eye here to say, "This is Irish". Although France is actually the most bagpipe-crazy country in the world (with over 150 different types of bagpipes), over here in NA it is the Scottish garb and pipebands that are publicized the most, and have come to represent all "Celtic" culture, so any folk festival that calls itself Celtic or Irish almost inevitably turns into Scottish pipebands. I think perhaps this is what the initial post on this thread was bemoaning.

djm

Baglady · Post by **Baglady** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:36 pm

Being one of the offending Great Pipe musicians hired to play at Irish Fair Minnesota, I suppose I should weigh in here. I have held off doing so to see where it would go.

I agree there was too much Scottish pipeing at the Irish Fair. You will have to talk to the people booking the talent about hireing Scottish stage bands and pretenders to the Piob Mhor tradition that we are plagued with. And you will have to talk to the people that hire Irish bands and musicians to play at the Highland Games about cross cultural contamination. You also need to be more sensitive to the history of the Piob Mhor and it's place in Irish culture localy and historicaly. Uilliean pipes owe their very existance to their grand progeneter by the way. And the festival is an outside event and so the outside pipes can have their day. I'm sorry the inside pipes felt overwhelmed.

What many in this area fail to understand is that Brian Boru Irish Pipe Band has been a big part of the development of the Irish culture in the Twin Cities since 1962. It has been the conduite into the culture for many and most of the greatest proponents of Irish culture here came from Piob Mhor or were greatly supported by the same.

I appreciate the education we have been given on the history of Piob Mhor. It has validated what I have believed for a while and I will correct my usage of the name. And I would like to invite anyone who would like to continue this discussion to join me at:

http://www.gaeliccrossings.com/forums/v ... e9a2cb6b81

Which I hope will become a less uptight forum where we can talk about Piob Mhor, it's history, it's place in the culture, it's redevelopment, and it's use in competition in the All Ireland Fladh, among other things.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:57 pm

The 'fladh'? A relaxed conversation on formal competiton in traditional music? I'd better stay where I am then!

It's not the last tradition that was/ is being dressed up and reduced to easily palatable performance standards by those who 'know best' simply because they claim to 'know what's best' the loudest and can prop it up with ill won political clout...(gasp, puff, pant etc.)

It's never easy is it.

Regards,

Harry.

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:04 pm

Baglady, sorry if I hit a nerve. This is not the place to be if you're going to get touchy. I was not specifically referring to your event (I've never been to Minnesota). It would be nice to see GHBs vindicated somehow as being part of the Irish cultural landscape, but how do you explain an Irish festival with a big pipe and drum corp thundering up to the main stands blazing out "Scotland the Brave"?

djm

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:25 pm

From my experience, I recall the Brian Boru Pipe Band sticking to Irish tunes for the most part. The Minnesota Pipes and Drums, is a different story altogether.

djm, Minnesota is very much like your neck of the woods, except that they have much better beer.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:03 pm

Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes bwaahhahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa

(it's a rainy day here).

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:19 pm

brianc wrote:Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes Warpipes bwaahhahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa

(it's a rainy day here).

Agony Bags! Agony Bags!

It's raining here too!

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:46 pm

Thanks for weighing in Baglady. I was hoping I would draw you out at some point. It's true, the Brian Boru pipeband is woven into the warp and the woof of Irish culture in these parts...has been for as long as I can remember. Were I to actually listen to your repetoire I might gleen some Irish tunes out of it. I see a pipeband coming and , if I am not in the mood for a pipeband, I withdraw into my shell.

Follow up: So are kilts Irish too? I get the feeling that a big part of being in a pipeband is that you get to play dressup. Isn't that what Renaissance Festivals are for?

t

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:34 pm

TommyK wrote:a big part of being in a pipeband is that you get to play dressup

I'm not sure if its the wool or the plaid, but they give me a terrible rash.

djm

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:28 pm

tommykleen wrote:Follow up: So are kilts Irish too? I get the feeling that a big part of being in a pipeband is that you get to play dressup. Isn't that what Renaissance Festivals are for?

A lot of "Irish" pipe bands either wear saffron kilts and green tunics with capes or green kilts with Aran wool jumpers. Caubeens are a given. The leinne (sp?) is supposedly the historical Irish kilt but there is no documentation of what it looked like. It is supposedly the progenitor of the saffron kilt.

Sadly the "dress-up" element is a big part for many bands, i.e. a lot of bands look better than they sound. I think it's important for a pipe band to look good but at the end of the day it's all about tone and tunes (for me it is at least).

Agony Bags... there are days when that is truer than ever.

Cheers,
Aaron

ballysodare · Post by **ballysodare** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:52 am

tommykleen wrote:Follow up: So are kilts Irish too? I get the feeling that a big part of being in a pipeband is that you get to play dressup. Isn't that what Renaissance Festivals are for?

Ok....let's get one thing straight here....
There is a big difference between the garb worn at a Renaissance Festival and a Pipe Band competition. We do not spend all winter sewing Book of Kells inspired embroidary onto our princess gowns and chieftain tunics.

We rehearse.

AaronMalcomb wrote: Sadly the "dress-up" element is a big part for many bands, i.e. a lot of bands look better than they sound. I think it's important for a pipe band to look good but at the end of the day it's all about tone and tunes (for me it is at least).

I do not understand this "dress up" principle. Never once have I woken up the day of a competition and thanked the creator that I'd be able to don a 14 oz wool skirt in the blistering sun all day. However, I still do....but it's more of a matter of pride than fashion sense. When I compete solo...I'm proud to wear my family's tartan. When I play in a band....I'm proud to wear my band's colors.

Plus, it is just proper etiquette.
I wouldn't wear a T-Shirt and Jeans to play at a funeral.
I wouldn't wear a tux to a baseball game.

Where are these bands that "look better than they play?"
I have never seen one of these at a competition.
Yes....your typical parade band will do it up with the feather bonnets and half plaids and spend more time ironing these than warming up.
Guess what....they're being "judged" by a generally non-piping audience based on superficial factors. Of course they're going to do it up in the "looks" department. That's what the crowd is going to remember.

In competition Yes...pipe bands are adjudicated on Dress and Deportment.....from time to time. I'd say in my 5 summers spent competiting in bands, I have seen 3 dress and deportment prizes handed out. Why? because it's not important. There is no spot on a judge's score sheet to mark how good the band looks. They are so busy critiquing tone, intonation, balance, ensemble, etc.....the "cut of the band's jib" is rarely examined.

The kilt acts more like a sport jersey than a "medieval druids cloak."
Just as a soccer team takes the field and operates as a big machine, so does a pipe band. That is the musical philosophy present at GHB competitions.

If you have a problem with the aesthetics of the music.....that is a different debate for a different thread. Please don't pick on us about how our pipe major dresses us.

Cheers

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am

tommykleen wrote: Follow up: So are kilts Irish too? t

Earliest recorded plaid is from Ulster and is a very mellow light saffron and black.
No such thing as "family" plaids.This was a victorian invention largely due to the romancings of Walter Scott(novelist) and Victoria(queen of the brits,or should I say Team GB!

)
Highlanders generally wore what was available locally or if the could afford it whatever took their fancy.The victorians in their own daft way formalised just about everything they could in life including turning a very practical form of garb which served both as bum warmer,rain cloak and blanket into a sanitised short skirt(invented by an English man called Thomas Rawlinson in 1730)nicely labelled into family clan tartan and sold on to dafties as "the real McCoy"....
The word is "Fleadh" not fladh pronounced roughly " flar"
Piob or Phiob is pronounced pib or peeb (not peeob as was mentioned earlier)Mhor ye already know.(well Brianc seems to have mastered the pronounciation,well done!! :roll: )
Slan Go Foill
Uilliam

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:21 am

Quote:"...Please don't pick on us about how our pipe major dresses us."
===============================================

....Talk about an open invitation for a jibe!

eric · Post by **eric** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:55 am

> not peeob as was mentioned earlier

C'mon now. It's tough to give the quality of the final B correctly with "english" spelling in the same way that you tried with "flar."

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:57 am

Joseph E. Smith wrote:Quote:"...Please don't pick on us about how our pipe major dresses us."
===============================================

....Talk about an open invitation for a jibe!

Perhaps something like: You're ugly and your pipe major dresses you funny?