How to behave at a session
-
glauber
- Posts: 4967
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: I'm from Brazil, living in the Chicago area (USA)
- Contact:
More *applause*.susnfx wrote:*applause*Teri-K wrote:I don’t believe trad is taken seriously as a music form by many. So many have said, it’s just for fun, I’ll play it my way, as though it’s just some quaint, rustic folk music with no structure, not to be considered “serious” music. If players want to just mess about with the whistle for their own enjoyment, that’s fine and no criticism from me. It’s when players proclaim they play trad music and just mess about with the whistle because they aren’t willing to invest the time, discipline, and respect the music deserves and behave as above, that I get a bit angry.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog!
--Wellsprings--
--Wellsprings--
-
Cayden
Great points all. I think I am very close to moxy's outlook, music conveys things maybe not so easily said otherwise, a different means of communication.
I believe it's great to sit down and feel while playing you have an understanding (for that reason I do not fancy large groups playing 2 t o4 ideally but certainly not more than maybe eight on rare occasions), that there's genuine interaction, the litle things, bouncing a little variation, lttile musical quotes and reacting to what the other does so you know you're heard. Also, there should be an added value to playing together, I don't see a (musical)point in playing togehter if theresult is not something more than the sum of it's parts. In playing with a group of people, even a small group individual detail and expression is inevitably lost. It's only worth it if there's something else added that lifts you above yourself.
For a couple of years now I play regularly with an old concretinaplayer locally. An unlikely combination of the blow-in and the local steepd in musical background, (flat)pipes and concertina. Yet we've developed an understanding that makes us play as one, complementing eachother, lifting us above ourselves on the days things fall in place. There are few things more satisfying.
I believe it's great to sit down and feel while playing you have an understanding (for that reason I do not fancy large groups playing 2 t o4 ideally but certainly not more than maybe eight on rare occasions), that there's genuine interaction, the litle things, bouncing a little variation, lttile musical quotes and reacting to what the other does so you know you're heard. Also, there should be an added value to playing together, I don't see a (musical)point in playing togehter if theresult is not something more than the sum of it's parts. In playing with a group of people, even a small group individual detail and expression is inevitably lost. It's only worth it if there's something else added that lifts you above yourself.
For a couple of years now I play regularly with an old concretinaplayer locally. An unlikely combination of the blow-in and the local steepd in musical background, (flat)pipes and concertina. Yet we've developed an understanding that makes us play as one, complementing eachother, lifting us above ourselves on the days things fall in place. There are few things more satisfying.
-
Wombat
- Posts: 7105
- Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Probably Evanston, possibly Wollongong
Dead right. And there are established ways of dealing with the idiots who don't know their level or don't understand what the local rules and aims are. I've seen people very publically humiliated. I've heard of cymbols being thrown at musicians who can't keep up and are wasting everybody's time. The least that will happen in a jazz setting is that the musicians will choose an impossible key, chord progression and tempo and when it's your turn to solo you sink or swim. If you sink you don't get a second chance. The people who sink might arrive arrogant but they don't leave arrogant.Teri-K wrote:My take on the whole session issue is the prevalence of disrespect for the music. IRTRAD seems to be plagued with this condition more than any other genre of music. I can’t imagine that a novice, or expert musician of classical, jazz, blues, or any other species, would expect to sit in the orchestra/group and be allowed to play the music any way they pleased, disregard their fellow musicians, and disrupt the performance without being ridiculed. Not only is that beyond rude, it’s downright arrogant.
Just playing however you please is something done drunk and stoned around campfires by bongo players. That seems about the right place for it.
-
MurphyStout
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: San Francisco
Hey, there better be room for three on that date! Otherwise, Az will have to stay home.... besides, if you go out on a dinner date with Az, there will be mayonaise all over the place and he never picks up the bill. Hehe, AND I'm taller, better looking, younger and not nearly as hairy.Teri-K wrote:It's a date. I promise I won't be in Las Vegas this time and will handcuff my box to my wristAzalin wrote:Actually, I can't say better than you did, so we have a problem here!Teri-K wrote:Moxy and Az made excellent points about the whole dynamic of sessions and what the optimum goals should be – I can’t say it any better than they did.Mabe we'll have a chance to talk sessions if you invite me for dinner in march in Seattle*
*Covert operation for taking your box away from you and save you from a life of endless pain.
No I'm not returning...
-
Teri-K
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Seattle WA
I was hoping you would be in the area at the same time, Murph. I'm assuming another Friday Harbor trip? Of course there's room for three. No dinner out, though - I've heard Az is known to dine and dash. Dinner, my house, your choice. All hot dogs and mayo will be locked away.MurphyStout wrote:
Hey, there better be room for three on that date! Otherwise, Az will have to stay home.... besides, if you go out on a dinner date with Az, there will be mayonaise all over the place and he never picks up the bill. Hehe, AND I'm taller, better looking, younger and not nearly as hairy.
Not sure about the hair issue - strand for strand, is there more on Az's chest or your head?
-
LeeMarsh
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Odenton, MD (Wash-Baltimore Area)
For me there is a difference between a session, an open mike, and a performance. A session is a group of musicians getting together to play music for each other. An Open Mike is a gathering of musicians who are practicing performing for an audience, a kind of open performance. A performance is just the muscian playing for the audience.
It seems like all of these fall in a wide range and mix of musical genre's. Some sessions are pure drop ITM, some are mixed traditions. Some are instrumental only; some are predominately songs; and, some are mixes.
I like the social discussion analogy that started this thread. Some folks get togeather to talk politics, some get togeather to talk sports, some get together to talk Star Trek. If you want to join, you first must have a feel for the general subject under discussion. The more you know about the subject, the better able you are to add to it. Also there may be limits to the scope of the discussion, it might be just the original Star Trek TV series, or it might be all Star Trek movies and series, or it might be space oriented science fiction. Just as in some sessions, it might be strickly Irish where the range is limited to irish styles. Some sessions might be limited to the celtic traditions including Scots, Welsh, Irish American, Breton. In others it might be open to a wide range of traditional musics, including blue grass, old time, Cajun as well as Irish, Scots and others.
Also in any discussion, there is a range of verbal ability, and the most eloquent is not always the one who has the relevant thing to say about a subject. A discussion group may have a range of verbal ability that dominates the discussion. It may tolerate or even encourage new points view. I may be a meeting of doctorial candidates discussing the esoterics or it could be a meeting of interested amatuers and fans who excited about new developments. The same can be true of sessions. Some my be dominated by beginners or by intermediate or by advanced players. Someone joining in will be able to contribute only in as much as that can fit in with the dominant group. Perhaps an advanced player appreciates that passion that beginers can bring to an old tune, because for the beginner the Kesh is a brand new song. Perhaps the intermediate player can appreciate playing something that is easy to hand and so too enjoy's the occasional Kesh, or Irish Washerwoman. However, the intermediate player may also appreciate being pushed to the limits of their ability with a new tune played well by advance players.
A social discussion can have a variety of purposes, it might be to try to resolve, confirm, or deepen a concensus. Another purpose might be to educate and draw in outsiders to the dominant views of the group. It might be to explore new concepts and ideas to find if they are compatible with the dominant views of the group; or, it could be a mixture of any of these and more. The same is true of sessions, their purpose could be to perfect the melding of the group in playing particular settings of a common repetoire of tunes. It might be to spread those tunes and their passion for the tunes to other players. The purpose could be just to explore a variety of settings and tunes, to refresh their passions and expand the range of tunes. Or as in the discussion group, it may be a combination of any of these and others.
So with a discussion group we have subject, ability, and purpose: all of which vary depending on the group. They may also vary based on the history or age of the group or the presence of absence of the various members. The same with sessions: todays tuesday session may be totally different that last years. Its ranges may have contracted to perfect its purpose or expanded to draw more folks in, or to draw back folks that were left out. A given session may also feel the impact of losses or gains.
Like any good analogy, it's good to recognize the difference between the analogy and what it is supposed to illustrate or represent. A discussion is verbal, a session is musical. In a discussion group one expects a verbal exchanges; in a session one expect the exchanges to be primarily musical. If muscians were verbally eloquent, they'd be poets. Which is good to remember with the session.
So what do I look for in a good session?
One that I fit into in terms of the ranges of subject, ability, and purpose.
One that I will grow in finding challenges that can be achieved.
One that I can contribute to either as student, teacher, or just fellow player.
And yet there is more. I look for a sense of connection, with the players, with the tunes, with the times. A connection that is not about being polite; not about doing well or poorly; not about slow or fast; not even about playing every note. It more about having something inside that needs to get out and be shared with others, something that isn't about words. I need to get it out and I need to hear it reflected in others. I also need to hear that same thing going on inside others. I need to hear the tune they need to play, not just the tune they play well. I don't expect there to be a lot of verbal recognition of the need. With some players there may even be a kind of verbal masking, like the "Grown Men Don't Cry" comment, when the grown man needs to mourn a loss. Like I said above, if musicians could express themselve well in words they'd be poets.
All in all, it is that last part, the connection that I look for most. The connection that builds communities of musicians. Its that connection the guy at the bar hears from the folks in the corner and nods his head wishing he had learned to play an instrument. It why the pub owner, buys us the first round, so his patrons can experience that connection, if only second hand.
When the connections there, in a pub, or a kitchen; with a couple of friends or a crowd of 20; in the bright of the day, or the small hours of the night, playing pure drop or Amercanized irish cajon; it is what I want. The connection is what I need to enjoy my music. If you play with me, it's the connection that I hope you'll see when you ...
It seems like all of these fall in a wide range and mix of musical genre's. Some sessions are pure drop ITM, some are mixed traditions. Some are instrumental only; some are predominately songs; and, some are mixes.
I like the social discussion analogy that started this thread. Some folks get togeather to talk politics, some get togeather to talk sports, some get together to talk Star Trek. If you want to join, you first must have a feel for the general subject under discussion. The more you know about the subject, the better able you are to add to it. Also there may be limits to the scope of the discussion, it might be just the original Star Trek TV series, or it might be all Star Trek movies and series, or it might be space oriented science fiction. Just as in some sessions, it might be strickly Irish where the range is limited to irish styles. Some sessions might be limited to the celtic traditions including Scots, Welsh, Irish American, Breton. In others it might be open to a wide range of traditional musics, including blue grass, old time, Cajun as well as Irish, Scots and others.
Also in any discussion, there is a range of verbal ability, and the most eloquent is not always the one who has the relevant thing to say about a subject. A discussion group may have a range of verbal ability that dominates the discussion. It may tolerate or even encourage new points view. I may be a meeting of doctorial candidates discussing the esoterics or it could be a meeting of interested amatuers and fans who excited about new developments. The same can be true of sessions. Some my be dominated by beginners or by intermediate or by advanced players. Someone joining in will be able to contribute only in as much as that can fit in with the dominant group. Perhaps an advanced player appreciates that passion that beginers can bring to an old tune, because for the beginner the Kesh is a brand new song. Perhaps the intermediate player can appreciate playing something that is easy to hand and so too enjoy's the occasional Kesh, or Irish Washerwoman. However, the intermediate player may also appreciate being pushed to the limits of their ability with a new tune played well by advance players.
A social discussion can have a variety of purposes, it might be to try to resolve, confirm, or deepen a concensus. Another purpose might be to educate and draw in outsiders to the dominant views of the group. It might be to explore new concepts and ideas to find if they are compatible with the dominant views of the group; or, it could be a mixture of any of these and more. The same is true of sessions, their purpose could be to perfect the melding of the group in playing particular settings of a common repetoire of tunes. It might be to spread those tunes and their passion for the tunes to other players. The purpose could be just to explore a variety of settings and tunes, to refresh their passions and expand the range of tunes. Or as in the discussion group, it may be a combination of any of these and others.
So with a discussion group we have subject, ability, and purpose: all of which vary depending on the group. They may also vary based on the history or age of the group or the presence of absence of the various members. The same with sessions: todays tuesday session may be totally different that last years. Its ranges may have contracted to perfect its purpose or expanded to draw more folks in, or to draw back folks that were left out. A given session may also feel the impact of losses or gains.
Like any good analogy, it's good to recognize the difference between the analogy and what it is supposed to illustrate or represent. A discussion is verbal, a session is musical. In a discussion group one expects a verbal exchanges; in a session one expect the exchanges to be primarily musical. If muscians were verbally eloquent, they'd be poets. Which is good to remember with the session.
So what do I look for in a good session?
One that I fit into in terms of the ranges of subject, ability, and purpose.
One that I will grow in finding challenges that can be achieved.
One that I can contribute to either as student, teacher, or just fellow player.
And yet there is more. I look for a sense of connection, with the players, with the tunes, with the times. A connection that is not about being polite; not about doing well or poorly; not about slow or fast; not even about playing every note. It more about having something inside that needs to get out and be shared with others, something that isn't about words. I need to get it out and I need to hear it reflected in others. I also need to hear that same thing going on inside others. I need to hear the tune they need to play, not just the tune they play well. I don't expect there to be a lot of verbal recognition of the need. With some players there may even be a kind of verbal masking, like the "Grown Men Don't Cry" comment, when the grown man needs to mourn a loss. Like I said above, if musicians could express themselve well in words they'd be poets.
All in all, it is that last part, the connection that I look for most. The connection that builds communities of musicians. Its that connection the guy at the bar hears from the folks in the corner and nods his head wishing he had learned to play an instrument. It why the pub owner, buys us the first round, so his patrons can experience that connection, if only second hand.
When the connections there, in a pub, or a kitchen; with a couple of friends or a crowd of 20; in the bright of the day, or the small hours of the night, playing pure drop or Amercanized irish cajon; it is what I want. The connection is what I need to enjoy my music. If you play with me, it's the connection that I hope you'll see when you ...
Enjoy Your Music,
Lee Marsh
From Odenton, MD.
Lee Marsh
From Odenton, MD.
-
Guest
-
PhilO
- Posts: 2931
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: New York
Had a conversation with a nice gentleman I met at a party some time ago. Seems he was a pretty fair classical flutist who was having a devil of a time trying to play IRTRAD. He was quite respectful. Disrespect for this music is largely ignorance. Hard to imagine how some don't understand how difficult it can be to play this "simple" music; the basics are challenging enough; then it's nuance upon nuance, enough to last a lifetime. Listening to, learning and playing this music really makes me happy...should be almost impossible to disrespect something that makes you happy...Wombat wrote:Teri-K wrote:My take on the whole session issue is the prevalence of disrespect for the music. IRTRAD seems to be plagued with this condition more than any other genre of music. I can’t imagine that a novice, or expert musician of classical, jazz, blues, or any other species, would expect to sit in the orchestra/group and be allowed to play the music any way they pleased, disregard their fellow musicians, and disrupt the performance without being ridiculed. Not only is that beyond rude, it’s downright arrogant.
Philo
"This is this; this ain't something else. This is this." - Robert DeNiro, "The Deer Hunter," 1978.
-
MurphyStout
- Posts: 737
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: San Francisco
Hmmm, well if it's his chest vs my hair I win hands down but then again if it's his arms, legs and chest vs my head you'd have to bring in a neutral judge cause it's too close for me to call.Teri-K wrote:MurphyStout wrote: Not sure about the hair issue - strand for strand, is there more on Az's chest or your head?
Yeah, providing Catherine is teaching and my buddies Az and Karina are going I'll be up in Friday Harbor next year! Damn shame we didn't get to meet up last year but for sure we'll meet this year!
No I'm not returning...
-
Flyingcursor
- Posts: 6573
- Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: This is the first sentence. This is the second of the recommended sentences intended to thwart spam its. This is a third, bonus sentence!
- Location: Portsmouth, VA1, "the States"
Now I'm really shocked. I thought Bloomfield would lay into me. I guess I'm not worth arguing with.
I personally would never presume to jump in on a session with real players. I get nervous playing with even one really good player in a personal setting.
But, if I did make such presumption, I would, in addition to the aforementioned tasks listed by Walden and others, stand directly behind the best player and play harmonica in a straight blues style.
I personally would never presume to jump in on a session with real players. I get nervous playing with even one really good player in a personal setting.
But, if I did make such presumption, I would, in addition to the aforementioned tasks listed by Walden and others, stand directly behind the best player and play harmonica in a straight blues style.
Funny you should mention that.Peter Laban wrote: there's really nothing new in these threads is there.
I'm no longer trying a new posting paradigm
