Todd Denman's CD

[Uilliam]

Mine is in B Todds was in D both in snakewood mine was the 2nd made so the problems of snakewood were sorted.
Uilliam

[Jim McGuire]

I had heard Todd talk about getting a Rogge set while on stage at an event, possibly in Seattle, via a videotape. Andreas had come up to him at a tionol or something, presented a new set to him, Todd said it was lovely, etc, and handed it back to Andreas. Andreas said this is the set you ordered. Todd said just about everything was different from his placed order (different wood, etc). Never knew how that one turned out.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Mine is in B Todds was in D both in snakewood mine was the 2nd made so the problems of snakewood were sorted.
Uilliam

I hate to have to write chime in on this but.... no, Todds was a B set aswell. This is the set that Bill Haneman used to play.

Bill, Todd, any comments?

PD.

[Uilliam]

Patrick thankyou....I don't know my D from B!!! the set Todd and Bill had was of course B (I have played some tunes with Bill at the Belfast tional and it would have been a bit difficult if one was in D and the other B!! )I'm just a bit curious as to why Jim introduced Rogge into the thread anyway? :roll: especially when he had the story from Todd himself.Given that ye can't seem to leave this one alone ye can get on wi 'it .but I'm not with ye.
Uilliam

[Jim McGuire]

I have no idea on what set Todd is playing today, beyond the Chiff info. I think that video was from 5-10 years ago. I never knew whether he had acquired that set that was handed to him or did he get the set to his specs or who knows what.

[Todd Denman]

Cheers Everyone,

Travis kindly sent me an email and mentioned there was some confusion about my pipes, and suggested I visit your forum. Good to see some friends here. Thanks for the kind comments about my CD.

Well, as is often the case in second and third-hand information from years back things have become quite confused and taken out of context, mixed with conjecture.

Andreas and I go way back. I've known him from meetings in his shop in Germany and in France at regional Irish music gatherings back when he was experimenting with his very first set of uilleann pipes, before he was selling them, some 18 years ago or so. We've been friends the whole time and are still on good terms. Some may recall that I was first championing Andreas' pipes in the US many years ago, before he was known Stateside. Several people ordered sets from Andreas through my recommendations, like Conall O'Raghallaigh (whose set still sounds rich and amazing), and others.

I was also close friends with Andreas' assistant, Tom Aebi, whom I knew in Switzerland before he ever took up Irish music and pipes. Tom and I had a good dialog about pipe design in the early years while he was working with Andreas, while I was still based in Europe. Andreas allowed Tom to design a chanter early on. (After playing that chanter in Germany, this was my recommendation to Conall, and what Conall got with his set -- Tom's chanter design, still one of the best in my opinion.) Andreas and I had some good design discussions as well, and it was an inevitable outgrowth of these and his early foray into flat sets which led to the events which became the colorful story of my B set.

Yes, the story of my set is unique, and there were several unexpected twists in the road. I first commissioned the set from Andreas in discussions shortly after he made his first C set, which had impressed me. We had the usual discussions about the type of timber and metal and number of keys, all the normal things. (Some pipemakers use different timbers and styles and give you a choice. This was particularly the case with Andreas who was just beginning to make flat sets.) Our discussions centered around a specific set to make. About a year later, when Andreas brought the finished set to the Seattle tionol I was surprised to see that none of what we discussed was there -- for some reason, perhaps a misunderstanding, it was another set. Instead of ebony, it was snakewood. It wasn't at all the set we discussed or ordered. I did agree that it was a fine set and it played fine and the snakewood looked good. I had tonal and other reasons for placing my original order, and naturally that was my preference. During the weekend Andreas sold the set to Bill H. (who later sold it to Kevin Carr). (This became the gossip of the weekend, apparently.) But we talked and we agreed he would make my set as originally planned. We took notes again of the planned set and within 18 months Andreas had made the ebony B set which I currently have and which is a fabulous sounding set of pipes.

Yet there were still a few twists ahead. There was a problem with the chanter which we couldn't fix. We tried to compensate with reeds, Andreas was sure the chanter was fine. It persisted and I couldn't really play the set. Four years later Andreas looked at the chanter during a San Francisco tionol and agreed there was something wrong. He took it back to Germany for some reaming and adjusting. A year later I inquired about the chanter and Andreas said he had shipped it to me six months earlier! Well, it never arrived. Sorting this out and then finding time for Andreas to make a replacement chanter, this took over another year. In the end I'd had the set for 6 or 7 years before I was able to play them much. And two years prior to that was the original order... t'was a long, twisty road. But worth it.

The replacement chanter has two keys by mistake instead of three like the original. Andreas would have put on the third key but there is no mount. For those who are interested, the set is ebony with sterling silver and bone. It is also the first removable bass reg that Andreas made, my request, which afterwards became his standard on other flat sets. It's also his very first set made with a hollow stock, also from my original order. There are other old style features which are not seen on modern pipes. We've had a couple sessions together at tionols since, at least one with Jimmy O'Brien-Moran, myself and Andreas all in B, all of us in tune. Everything is good.

Over the years people have come up and asked me about this story and the infamous snakewood original set. The interest in both sets is understandable. Snakewood was a total novelty at the time. No one in the piping community had ever seen it or heard of it before. The snakewood set was quite flamboyant in appearance and attracted attention. I believe it was the first one ever made. (There were a lot of firsts with my set. First hollow stock, first removable bass reg, first chanter lost in the mail...) It seems the set made a big splash everywhere and naturally people were curious and wanted to know where it came from. The rumors about a riff with Andreas apparently continued when the set arrived at Milltown that summer. Bill H. was naturally proud of his new snakewood set and apparently not shy in explaining how he happened to acquire it. It apparently was a hot subject. I heard regular stories at the time like, "Robbie Hannan was playing the snakewood set at Milltown and said it was brilliant, and Bill is telling everyone how you didn't take the set and everyone thinks you're an eejit... " Well, OK. Who was I to spoil the amusemunt?

Unfortunately, that was only half the story. I'm sure it put me in an odd light. At that point it didn't help much for me to explain it either. When people asked me, and I explained what happened it probably sounded like a rebuttal to whatever exaggerated version they had already been hearing. It doesn't serve any purpose to debate these things and I'm usually quite oblivious to gossip. I was just a guy waiting for his originally ordered set of pipes. I wasn't aware that I was being lured into responding to expectations or previous, unkind comments and assumptions. Apparently no one knew that Andreas and I had sorted out the situation during the same tionol weekend, and he was already at work making the originally planned set of ebony pipes. In fact, I should also mention that my order was originally for nickel silver. And during that tionol weekend Andreas suggested real silver would be better. I was surprised, and agreed. So that detail was changed, and is how he made it. All the ferrules and tubing are hand rolled.

There were also questions about my D set.

Andreas Rogge B natural full set and a full D set comprising of (last time I saw him) a Leo Rowsome chanter with Kevin Thompson drones and regs.

PD.

Nope, I've never had any Kevin Thompson.

The body is an original mahogony stock from McCarthy, my very first set (half-set) and all that remains. The bass drone is Johnny Burke, who was an old friend. The middle drone is John Pedersen. The tenor drone is half McCarthy, half John Pedersen. The regs are by Robbie Hughes, with whom I stayed in 1982 while he made them. I currently play a Kohler-Quinn chanter, but also have an old Rowsome which is what's on all my own concert pitch recordings thus far, as they were all recorded before I got the Kohler-Quinn. (Recent guest recordings and gigs are with the K-Q.) I've been using reeds I made from recycled heads that Paddy Keenan has given me in the Rowsome. In the K-Q I'm happy to say I'm still using Benedict's original reed. The bellows is Geoff Wooff and the bag is a custom bag I had made from L&M in Canada. (They have my template on file, and others have found it handy to order this design. ) Previously I had a vinyl bag for years which I made, but it was getting so many leaks and patches and I was doing some high profile, large theatre performances and it was too unnerving with the potential leaks... I could see myself bursting the bag on stage. So I switched to leather, though I still prefer vinyl. My B set has a vinyl bag.

For the record, I also have a B-flat set, which is a Robbie Hughes blonde body (psuedo-boxwood) with Geoff Wooff ebony regs and blackwood chanter in nickel silver which I installed myself. It's very unusual to see Wooff pipes combined like this with others. My story was always that I could never afford to buy a whole set of pipes at once, and had to put them together over the years bit by bit. This is the flat set on many of my recordings, as they predate the working B set. Mick O'Brien played them a few years ago and couldn't put them down.

About recordings, yes I do have some "pure drop" trad recordings in the works, and a sequel to "Reeds and Rosin" with Dale Russ and Gerry O'Beirne. It has some beautiful unknown tunes that Dale unearthed that fit the pipes wonderfully. My bi-coastal, nomadic lifestyle and family and touring duties have slowed the recordings, but they are coming. I recently turned down a very lucrative contract with Cirque Du Soleil, to instead slow down and get back to recording and a steady life. I'll be playing pipes under the San Francisco Symphony this fall and winter.

Hope to see many of you at the San Francisco Tionol in February 2005.

cheers all,
todd

[elbogo]

Welcome, Todd! I'm glad that story is all straightened out, thanks. It is a very interesting story on top of it, rumors and all... but obviously frustrating as hell.

By the way, I can still almost hear the lovely Caoineadh na dTri Muire you played for us at the 2003 San Francisco Tionol... Wonderful version.

[Lorenzo]

Good to hear from you Todd. And good to hear you still have a piece of that first McCarthy set (I couldn't toss my first McCarthy chanter soon enough--it being about the size of a pencil!).

I still remember hearing you playing Kid on the Mountain with that new Quinn chanter, out back of the concert hall at Folklife in Seattle...circa 1980? And I still have recordings (and pictures) of you guys piping at the old school in Ballard--with Brooks, students, and all.

For all you newbies and doubters, Todd was about as good the first year or two as he is now.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

For all you newbies and doubters, Todd was about as good the first year or two as he is now.

Is that a complement?

Welcome to the melee Tood. Great email. It's nice to hear the fact's from the horses mouth.

I remember that tionól with Mick. It was my first. The highlight of the weekend was hearing Mick play your Hughes/Wooff set. That was magical stuff! It was the first time I heard a dodeccatuplet

See you in February, any word about guests yet? Will you be out for the So Cal Tionól?

Take care,

Patrick.

[Steampacket]

Nice to hear the story of the Rogge snakewood set. On my first trip to Miltown in 1996 I met Bill H. out at Spanish Point camping. He showed me the snakewood set, but I knew nothing of the story behind it at the time. They were an impressive looking set I remember, but I knew nothing of the story behind them until now.

This year at Miltown I saw a man in the street who I realised later was Billy McCormick. Todd did you ever get to see and hear the McCormick Taylor set that Billy has? Peter L. mentioned to us that Billy was playing very well in one of the pubs and that the pipes were sounding very nice. I think when Billy was over in the US in 2003 he was using a Cillian O'Briain chanter? with the set. I wonder if he was using the O'Briain or Taylor chanter at Miltown this year?

[billh]

...The set was sold by Andreas to Bill Hannaman who has not had the slightest problem with it and was very happy to have it.
I suspect there were other factors at work re the set and Todd,but I can assure ye it works fine and if ye are in Dublin look up Bill, he will be happy to shew ye the set.

Todd had very detailed quibbles, rightly or wrongly, and Bill a few weeks ago told me that after a few years with it he viewed the set with different eyes and, well, he had moved on. Whatever, it's all not at all relevant to the present discussion.

Peter's probably right, and I apologize for pulling the discussion in a new direction javascript:emoticon(':P')

FWIW, the set does indeed "play fine" in fact quite nicely. I don't have any specific complaints about it and the set has given me a lot of pleasure over the years. I have been lucky enough to play sets that I liked better (but did not own). I am playing a different set now, that's true, and have found that I'm not playing the B set at all anymore. For that reason, and to help support some other bad habits I have recently picked up involving lathes javascript:emoticon(''), I have decided to put it up for sale, in the long-term I plan to replace it with another B set; at the moment I am playing almost entirely C#.

I've tried a few C and B sets over the years, but I can't say I've had lengthy enough encounters with other B sets (including making reeds for them) to make fair comparisons. My biased conjecture is that there may be better B sets to be had, but possibly only from makers whose "books are effectively closed". If you have a favorite maker (from this century), sooner or later a used set will probably become available, so that's not the end of the story. I have had several highly-regarded pipers play this B set and opine that it was a superior example of Rogge's work (whatever their opinions of that work might have been).

I also have some ideas about some ofTodd's complaints, which I would be willing to share in a later post. For the most part I have concluded that from my POV they are theoretical as opposed to active concerns. In any case this set has the advantage of already existing and being fully reeded, so the curious may try it on for size.

Once I get some pics ready I will post a new thread, but this seemed like an appropriate time to add this tidbit. If anyone is interested in a deluxe Rogge B set in excellent condifion, this one is available. Feel free to email me privately in the meantime:
bill.haneman at sun dot com.

regards

Bill

[billh]

Hiya Todd!

Cheers Everyone,

...About a year later, when Andreas brought the finished set to the Seattle tionol I was surprised to see that none of what we discussed was there -- for some reason, perhaps a misunderstanding, it was another set. Instead of ebony, it was snakewood. It wasn't at all the set we discussed or ordered.

This sounds like my recollection as well - at least of most of your concerns, i.e. it wasn't what you recalled ordering. I thought perhaps you didn't like the pin mounts on the regs (I wouldn't trust them either, except on snakewood, which has excellent screw-holding characteristics and isn't as prone to split as ebony - or so the wood people tell me). Or the tuning thumbscrew.

During the weekend Andreas sold the set to Bill H. (who later sold it to Kevin Carr).

I didn't sell the set to Kevin - not sure what the real story about Kevin's pipes is.

The rumors about a riff with Andreas apparently continued when the set arrived at Milltown that summer. Bill H. was naturally proud of his new snakewood set and apparently not shy in explaining how he happened to acquire it. It apparently was a hot subject. I heard regular stories at the time like, "Robbie Hannan was playing the snakewood set at Milltown and said it was brilliant, and Bill is telling everyone how you didn't take the set and everyone thinks you're an eejit... " Well, OK. Who was I to spoil the amusemunt?

I hope I didn't fuel those rumors too much - I did try to be understated when explaining how I came by them, though I did explain that they were made for "someone else"... and of course at that point I was always pressed for names. As you say, they are very eye-catching and were playing pretty well, and everybody likes a good lively story and will add their own conclusions when convenient. .javascript:emoticon('')
I am not sure whether I knew (at Miltown) about the arrangement you and Andreas arrived at regarding the "follow-on set", but I did hear about it reasonably soon thereafter, so I was aware that you were sorting the matter out.

Nice to hear from you,

Best regards,

- Bill[/quote]

[billh]

However, both you and Peter have pointed out that two pipers are not satisfied with this set.

I think we've got a reasonable explanation of Todd's issues with the set now, As for myself, I am not "unsatisfied" with the set either. People do sell sets for reasons other than deciding they are sh*t

I think Todd's post has already illustrated how big conclusions get drawn from small bits of information