OT: A POLL How many pagans do we have on this Board?

Monster · Post by **Monster** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:16 pm

It's weird, seems sort of hard to nail down what a "Pagan" is . Like defining what a "Christian" is except even harder for me since I don't have much knowlege really of the different forms of paganism.

Christianity, which I do know a little better varies a great deal, all the way from Jehovah's Witness to Roman Catholic, to Mormon, to the televangelist.

Historically, I have hovered in the area of openmindedness and have tried many religions and found them all to be quite unsatisfying. (Especiallly after reading some history and a smattering of psychology) I am quite at ease now with being a human, with being a fallible person, I have gotten over the need to have a benevolent or not so benevolent deity monitor my daily activities. I monitor my own daily activities

I guess maybe religion isn't something that one can try, but perhaps it's something that one succumbs to, or has an overwhelming experience of, or is likely mixture of psychological forces combined with natural human tendencies that create intense sincere religious beliefs.

Maybe the area of interest for me isn't so much religion per se, but how religion and or a belief system helps people to live day to day. I tend to think that everyone has a belief system of some sort. A lot of people use religion for a sort of pre-fabricated belief system, which is cool for individuals, as long as you actually believe what you say you believe, you will probably be fine. The problem I find with religion in general is that once you're hooked in and really believe it's sort of like having a giant ring passed through your nose, you become tethered to a bureaucracy you are not in charge of your beliefs, I believe you really lose something when this happens.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:31 am

Monster, well spoken.

Great post.

--James

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:45 am

Yes, good post, Monster! Yesterday, franfriel said something that ties in nicely to your last thought: "There's a lot of habitual "thinking" and rhetoric that is never questioned. I believe that habitual "thinking" and belief takes away choice and true freedom of heart, mind and spirit."

Tres · Post by **Tres** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:07 am

slowair wrote:I'd like to know.....

Is there a book that describes the religious beliefs of Ireland before Christianity was introduced?

Something easy to read.

Mike

Try "Ancient Pagan Religions of the British Isles" by Professor Ronald Hutton. His conclusion pretty much is that we know very little about pre-christian religion in Britain.

Tres

Tres · Post by **Tres** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:15 am

cj wrote:Regarding the 10 Commandments in Georgia, I consider myself a Christian; however, if I recall correctly, the founding fathers were quite clear about the separation of church and state. Of course, here in the South, if I voice this opinion much, I get branded a heretic, i.e., "not a real Christian" by some folks who believe a Christian who believes in the separation of church and state is not possible. It is quite possible though.

The founding fathers put into the Constitution that "Congress" should pass no law establishing a state religion-- a far cry from the more generic saying "separation of Church and state". The rest, as they say, is history.

Tres

Leel · Post by **Leel** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:18 am

Wiccan/Native American Animist/Celtic Neo-Paganist/Buddhist, here!

....and, that it does no harm.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:42 pm

EXPLAIN WHY CHRISTIANITY HAD TO CRUSH PAGANISM

Okay, I'll bite. Because the righteous Christians became convinced that any kind of reverence to nature had to be of the Devil?

Yes, that's partly right. After the Christians learned about such possibilities as a Heaven and Hell, this gave way to the possibility that a boogie man from the great pit (Hell) was controlling and warping the lives of innocent peoples. There was no way to kill the Devil, so they were left to cleanse the Devil's temple...the heathans, the pagans.

Then what about today? Are the pagans here on C&F any different than the pagans of yesteryear?

No. That's why it's important to have a good Christian leader who will take charge and cleanse C&F from all these Devil worshipers here. I know there's not any actual posts like that, but the influence is the same...these are not natural people, they're possessed. They say stuff like "thank-you Mother Nature" and many have admitted subscibing to "Mother Earth News." Many have openly confessed that they practice witchcraft. Others are just naturally crafty, it seems...same thing. What more evidence do we need?

I know these people well, both Pagans and Christians, and I'm sure there's no difference.

Well! You haven't seen the human sacrifices I've heard about! They offer up things like animals...innocent lambs, etc., and one old guy, Abe, even started to offer up his own son to please his god, but was stopped short of lowering the knife.

And besides, they're all polytheists...some even believe in a Trinity of some sort...not sure where they learn all this stuff. And they have rites and rituals, maybe not in a sanctuary, but they contaminate nature itself with their prayers and worship. Any reverence for Mother Nature, whether silent or otherwise, is of the Devil. Has to be! Allegiance can only be given to the Creator of all Nature. These Pagans are all pantheiests.

Who told you there was a creator of all of Nature?

My dad. Why? You think it's not good enough to hear it from my preacher? You nincompoop! Are you one of them?

No, I'm neither Pagan nor Christian. I'm just me. I have no religious beliefs.

NO YOU'RE NOT!! No one is just themselves! You are either of God or the Devil!

Where did you hear that?

From my preacher, knucklehead! We pay him a good amount of tithes and offerings to do the right research. Our church leaders cannot be wrong. We know this. And anyone who disagrees will pay for it.

Then I must convert, your honor.

Yes, now that's better. See? Times haven't changed much have they. I knew you'd see the light.

(But I secretly faked my own conversion and, instead, warned the others to flee to the mountains. No, nothing has changed. I still think there's no difference though...people will be people)

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:13 pm

I'm reminded of an incident of a Sunday when I was visiting my mother and helping her get some stuff to a "garage" sale hosted at a chuch she attended; there was also a pig-roast slated for after the service. Now a fair number of this congregation were the sort of people for whom church attendance was an outright stamp of one's local politics, a phenomenon rife throughout the community: you were "known" (right :roll: ) by the church you frequented. On top of that, if you weren't a member and were on hand, you were courted aggressively to attend, or they'd know why. It was frankly weird as they were Methodists, of all things, but that can be semirural Minnesota for you.

On that day, I twice demurred when invited to attend the service, citing chores to do (meanwhile they tried to use my mother as guilt leverage). The third time, I said, "Actually, I'm just a happy pagan" (which I'm not: I just didn't like their creepiness), and they finally left it at that. I returned for the pig roast, and Mom seemed distracted. Finally she burst out with, "How could you have told those people that you're a Satan worshipper? I'm so embarrassed." I had to tell her the whole story, blow by blow, and reminded her that some people are ignorant about the difference between paganism and Satanic practices, which is what I thought most likely accounted for the misunderstanding. That cleared things up, and she understood; no problem. She did keep an eye on those busybodies from then on, though.

Monster · Post by **Monster** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:28 pm

Nanohedron, you will be assimilated!

Would Pagans hold a pig roast? Do you think those Methodists would be up for reading a few of Elaine Pagels's books?

Beyond Belief : The Secret Gospel of Thomas (Vintage) by ELAINE PAGELS (Paperback)
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The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels (Author) (Paperback)
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Elaine Pagels -- Many titles for Episcopalians and other seekers. Order today. -- wwww.episcopalbookstore.com

The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels (Paperback)
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Adam, Eve, and the Serpent by Elaine Pagels (Paperback)
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• Excerpt from Back Matter "... from Harvard University in í97o, Elaine Pagels taught at Barnard College, where ..."
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The Gnostic Paul: Gnostic Exegesis of the Pauline Letters by Elaine Pagels (Paperback)
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DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:50 pm

Well, the BeliefOMatic on Belief.net says I'm a 100% Neo-Pagan, and since computers never lie, well, there you have it.

Namaste

Kev

tommyk · Post by **tommyk** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:46 pm

Pick me!

An OBODie Druid (Bard) who can tolerate Unitarian Universalist church services.

Tommy Kochel
www.tommyswirled.com
www.gladlyplaye.com

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:25 am

What is the purpose for sounding out who may or who may not be Pagan on this forum? Are we planning a large bar-b-q? Hmmmmm?

Cyfiawnder · Post by **Cyfiawnder** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:17 am

Tomy you're OBOD? Have you read Ross Nicoles book the "The Book of Druidry" some very interesting stuff in there. I am a Nemeton Awenyddion student, of the Badagh (bard) grade... what else would I be doing here? Since Druids learn their own subjects that are closest to they want to learn, and at their own pace, there is no time limmit to how long it takes for a Seeker to to become a Druid. There are certain steps that can not be skipped, but there is no set time to when you have to take the NEXT step. The Step from Seeker to Bard is rather easy (in the Welsh system that I'm learning) It requires some study, and Personal works. A few fairly easy tests (if you pay attention) and recognition of the seasonal Celebrations. A home or Nature Alter is needed, and usually a Clan oath is essential, but besides that you're on your own.

I took the belief-o-matic test this is what I got:
Your Results:
The top score on the list below represents the faith that Belief-O-Matic, in its less than infinite wisdom, thinks most closely matches your beliefs. However, even a score of 100% does not mean that your views are all shared by this faith, or vice versa.

Belief-O-Matic then lists another 26 faiths in order of how much they have in common with your professed beliefs. The higher a faith appears on this list, the more closely it aligns with your thinking.

How did the Belief-O-Matic do? Discuss your results on our message boards.

1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. New Age (77%)
3. Hinduism (76%)
4. Sikhism (76%)
5. Mahayana Buddhism (74%)
6. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
7. Liberal Quakers (57%)
8. Jainism (56%)
9. Reform Judaism (56%)
10. Bahá'í Faith (49%)
11. Orthodox Judaism (48%)
12. Taoism (45%)
13. Theravada Buddhism (41%)
14. Scientology (38%)
15. New Thought (37%)
16. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (34%)
17. Islam (32%)
18. Secular Humanism (31%)
19. Orthodox Quaker (25%)
20. Nontheist (22%)
21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (20%)
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (18%)
23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (17%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (17%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (14%)
26. Roman Catholic (14%)
27. Jehovah's Witness (7%)

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:32 am

I've seen "The Wicker Man" too many times to get involved in this discussion. Except to say that if Britt Ekland had knocked on my door the way she did on Edward Woodward's, I would no longer be a practicing Phlegmatist.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:34 am

Monster wrote:Nanohedron, you will be assimilated!

Would Pagans hold a pig roast? Do you think those Methodists would be up for reading a few of Elaine Pagels's books?

I think you've got a point, Monster. Raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will return to it. Nanohedron is destined to become a good Methodist again if he continues to go to church pig roasts and ingest both hoof and snout.