Lets hear it for the humble bodhran!

[FJohnSharp]

I took a bodhran lesson from my whistle teacher and I'd like to work on it little by little. But i have to say that thanks to all of you, I know that if and when I ever try to play with others, I'll be very mindful of the etiquette.. My fellow musicians thank you in advance.

[Joseph E. Smith]

[Father Emmet]

How many flute players does it take to change a light bulb?

4. One to handle the bulb and 3 to criticize his/her embouchure.

How many drummers does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, they have machines that do that now!

Does anyone know of a drum machine, beat box, ect. that plays bodhran beats? It would be nice to practice to.

[djm]

Any programmable drum box would do the trick. You are not likely to find any pre-determined ITM patterns, but programming your own would certainly help you get it straight in your mind what you're trying to accomplish. The actual drum sample you choose wouldn't matter too much, but I suppose if you had some Latin voices you could go with some low congas, or any hand drum would be close.

djm

[burnsbyrne]

How many flute players does it take to change a light bulb?

4. One to handle the bulb and 3 to criticize his/her embouchure.

How many drummers does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, they have machines that do that now!

Does anyone know of a drum machine, beat box, ect. that plays bodhran beats? It would be nice to practice to.

If you are willing to do a little programming there is a nice metronome/drum machine that can be purchased as a PC-based software. Check it out here: http://www.ugcarray.com/vko/mundosoft.htm . I haven't used it in a while but I used it lots when I was playing flamenco, which is what it was originally designed for. The makers are always looking for new rhythms to add. Given the popularity of Irish music now they might like some "Celtic" rhythms.
Mike

[energy]

...the bodhrans ability to connect with the heart and soul of the listener.

This statement has me, uh, rather thoroughly befuddled. The idea that the instrument is capable of such is rather, hmmm, outside the capability of my brain to comprehend.

Don't tell me that I haven't heard a well played bodhran. I've heard John Joe Kelly, and the Danu dude, and several other "spectacular" bodhranists. None have truly wowed me. Plus I play the stupid thing, occasionally, when the fit is on me.

[Joseph E. Smith]

For you, maybe not. For others, yes. For me, depends on the tune, tempo and player.

[talasiga]

[quote="Janet E McCrickard in Nicholas Driver's
"Bodhran & Bones Tutor" (Hobgoblin Publication)"]
Next to the Indian tabla, it is the most sophisticated, developed,
and difficult to play drum that there is.[/quote]

I cannot wholly agree with this.
I have played percussion since before it was fashionable
and I have played both Indian tabla and Bodhran since 1984.
It is not the instrument that determines the sophistication
and development and so on
but the tradition and the expertise and creativity of the player.

I have seen Indian tablas being played like bongos
by those who don't even know how to play bongos
and, believe you me, it was not developed, sophisticated etc.

The complexity of the Indian tablas is a bit of a musical cliche.
This feting of the tabla ignores the other Indian drums
which have an equally sophisticated and highly developed
tradition such as the mridangam in South India, the Pakhaawaj (the tablas antecedent) in the North, the khol and so on.

However, putting aside my tangential criticism of Ms McCrickard's statement,
I think that she is attempting to insinuate the sort of parity that the Indian tabla enjoys with melodic instruments in that tradition
onto the bodhran.
I agree with this attempt because good bodhran playing deserves it.
The "primal" pairing of flute and bodhran as mentioned by Nano
is unsurpassed and it holds its own in any cross cultural comparison.

[Rando7]

Badly played anything, especially woodwind instruments, are an assault on anyone's sensibilities. I too wonder why bodhrans get such a bum rap...no pun intended. I can see from a 'sessioners' point of view, where a poorly played drum can upset the rhythm of a set of tunes, or if the volume of the drum is drowning out melodies.... but really, any instrument can do this.

I am of the opinion that slagging the bodhran is now almost always expected from ITM players, judging by the way I hear some people speak about it both on and off forum. It is not the instrument, but the player that makes the difference between good playing or not.

Personally, I like to play, and listen to the bodhran behind a ripping set of reels or jigs...it adds a heart beat to the music that otherwise is sometimes not there. It is a useful instrument that I would like to see embraced by more ITM players...besides, it is too bloody small to make a good trampoline.

I'm jumping into this conversation late, but have to say I agree with just about everything you say. I've been playing the bodhran about five years - I can't say as I'm any great shakes on it but have been at it long enough to form some opinions.

When it comes to ITM, I think the bodhran is best acting as a backup instrument 99.9% of the time. I think of it as analogous to a bari sax player in a jazz band, a baritone player in a concert band, etc. - yeah once in a while you get a chance to shine but overall your job is providing a base or low end for the feature melody players or acting as a part of an overall desired sound.

In a way the "spectacular" bodhran players like John Joe Kelly are part of the problem. In ITM, the bodhran should not break into ten minute solos like JJK, but when people talk about good bodhran players his is always the name that comes up (this is not criticizing JJK, his style works for Flook and he can more than hold his own playing backup style in a session, unfortunately he is usually not commended for doing so, it's the solos you hear about). Further, the bodhran classes I have had were taught by players who play more in the JJK or modern style, so beginners often get the idea that this is what they should emulate.

One other "problem" is that in order to provide a good backup you have to know the music, not just the basic rhythms but also the chord structure, overall feel, where the tune is going, etc. This is one reason I don't understand why melody players look for a "bodhran metronome" as it were, to play along with. Take a tune like "Kid on the Mountain" - it is all a slip jig but each of the five parts should be played differently by the bodhran (IMHO anyway). Even in simpler tunes the A should be played differently from the B, and usually the second or third time through will be played a bit differently from the first.

Unfortunately, when someone is just starting to play the bodhran there is no one telling them all this. Either you pick it up on your own, give up from all the slagging or turn into one of the horrible bodhran players you hear about. There is no great tradition of bodhran players who were content to stay in the background most of the time telling newbies to do the same. Compounding the problem is that while knowing the music is crucial, beginners usually don't. A beginning melody player will just sit out a song he doesn't know, while the bodhran will play along anyway.

I just realized I am echoing much of what Steve Shaw said, sorry if I'm being redundant.

[SteveShaw]

buskerSean wrote:

<<........Don't tell me that I haven't heard a well played bodhran. I've heard John Joe Kelly, and the Danu dude, and several other "spectacular" bodhranists. None have truly wowed me......>>

Yep. I've heard JJK, and Gino Lupari, both several times, and though I can accept that they are brilliant they both got on me tits after a (very short) while, and I ended up wishing they'd shut up and let the proper musicians get on with it without their impediment. A good bit of sheer ego coming in if you ask me, which is very bad with anyone in Irish music but especially bad with a bodhranist. I've only heard the Danu guy on CDs and I think he really ADDS something worthwhile to the proceedings. Same goes for Johnny McDonagh on an old De Danaan LP I have. These two guys don't try to play "tunes" on their drums - they know what they are there for and they do a damned good job of it. Well, that's what I think anyway!

Steve

[Nanohedron]

Good man yourself, Steve. Accomplished flashy drumming as a distraction aside, hereabouts when a drummer starts into going after the fancy stuff, some of us will shake our heads and say, "S/He's lost it." Invariably their timing gets bollixed up from going after flash when they're not ready for public consumption, and dodgy rhythm's a real aggravation to the melody players (as if that needed saying). I'll bet it take YEARS to be good at that sort of thing unless one is a natural-born percussionist. Meanwhile, I would hope that a percussionist would be satisfied with simplicity, which is elegant in itself. What's wrong with that? When we get simple drumming, the general relief and gratitude are almost palpable.

[SteveShaw]

Nanohedron writes:

<< Meanwhile, I would hope that a percussionist would be satisfied with simplicity, which is elegant in itself. What's wrong with that? When we get simple drumming, the general relief and gratitude are almost palpable. >>

Spot on, mate. I've always thought that traditional Irish music has an innate "simplicity" that makes it stand out (and I don't mean "easiness" of course - far from it). Bolting on fancy stuff just doesn't work. Your fancy-stuff, up-and-down the scale bodhran players - the ones who sound like water glugging out of a bottle - are a typical example. I could have said beer, but I didn't want to spoil my rant by introducing an element of pleasure. You can get the same effect with that trick of patting your cheek to sound like glugging water (the cheek on your FACE - duh!). The other sort of bodhran player who disappoints is the one who doesn't know one tune-type from another. Reels, hornpipes and polkas are all the same to him. The tragedy is that such people often have the potential to be very good - but they see the poor old bodhran as a quick way of getting to play in sessions, not realising that a study of at least the rudiments of the tradition, necessary for melody players, is a sine qua non (pretentious b*st**d, sorry!)

Cheers!

Steve

[Guest]

I dont agree with anything here, because when I began Irtrad many years ago there was no such thing as the Bodhran. Revived it is claimed from some time in the past, we never heard a word about it until the Chieftains and ORiada etc - it was alien to most folks knowledge. If you want to hear some realistic Irtrad of those times check out Joe Cooley's CD where the drum is a homemade Tambourine like those I often seen and heard all those long years ago.

About students in general who play Irtrad - people in glass houses..

Go way ...gauberlewouuuuuu

:0)

[Nanohedron]

Hmmm.....I've seen a couple of old black-and-white photos, dated from the '30s, I seem to recall, of a youngster with a simple bodhran. It was apparently homemade from a garden sieve frame, and had wire crossgrips in back instead of the wood crossbars we see nowadays. It was waaaay warped, and the little drummer had a delightfully malevolent expression. Maybe he was a Wren-boy? I can't believe that nobody in Ireland had not ever heard of THEM. As for bodhrans not being part of the earlier music, I have no reason to doubt that. I'm not in a position to know. It's here now, though, along with the guitar, etc., and probably to stay, so I think that what we do with them is what counts (sometimes burning might be best). At one time the melodeon was vilified as untraditional. Now no one really thinks about it. Except for maybe MurphyStout.

I've seen (and heard) one bodhran with those jingles on it, also homemade. Didn't care for it.

[djm]

This comes up repeatedly - I'm surprised Peter hasn't chimed in yet. What is the history of the bodhrán in ITM? Some say it was only used for leading some yearly march (can't remember the name), some say it came from a tambourine, some from a small device for sifting wheat. I have a couple of recordings of fiddle, piano and bodhrán from the 1920s, so it was not unheard of everywhere in Ireland. But then again, there are places in Ireland who wouldn't know an uilleann pipes if it fell on them. Let's not forget how obscure some "traditional" stuff had become in its own home.

The instrument that seems to have become really obscure is the hammered dulcimer. If I am not mistaken, some form of this has been around in Ireland for centuries as the tiompán (please correct me if I'm wrong, here). There are few if any recordings of this instrument, and most comments I have read on it from Ireland were very uncomplimentary. Anyone have any better info?

djm