Why steel?

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:51 pm

OK, this may be a whole can o' worms, but . . .

Why on earth are people using steel to make the ferrules/tubes for pipes? Are they using it for the keywork too?

I guess I don't get what's wrong with nickel-silver if you like that color, or brass if you like THAT color. It seems strange. Oh, and then there's sterling if you want to plunk down extra money.

I suppose the ornaments don't mean anything sonically . . . do they?

Are people usually using stainless? I mean, what's worse, a little tarnish, or rust?

I feel like I've never heard of steel until lately, and now it seems like I've seen a couple people who've got pipes with steel fittings.

Maybe I should ask why NOT steel, but WHY steel seems like a good place to start.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:00 pm

I suppose it is really a matter of taste, and maybe cost might be a contributor. I have heard of makers using steel for quite some time, I have even heard of someone using aluminium...why is beyond me...for the ornamentation of UPs.

I have to say that I like the look of stainless steel, kind of lends a 'Heavy Metal' to the pipes.

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:10 pm

I'm not sure what benefit it would have other than the look. I have been told steel is very difficult to work in, and requires some pretty tough tools. Brass is probably the cheapest and easiest to work. I would expect there would be a premium charged for work done in steel. I don't know if any makers work solely in steel, or if it is a special-order item.

djm

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:29 pm

Yeah, good question. I thought it was (is, you know what I mean) French-guy's preferred material. Whoa, massive brain freeze. Shoot. Lives in Ireland, makes pipes, flat sets . . . hmm. Made that set that played on "Kitty Lie Over."

Well, you know who I mean.

Stuart

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:30 pm

I imagine it would be a special order thing. And I am certain it is a bit heavier than set out of brass or nickel-silver.

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:55 pm

Actually...it may be a wee bit lighter.

(Specific Gravity)
Metal or alloy kg/cu.m
brass - casting 8400 - 8700
brass - rolled and drawn 8430 - 8730
nickel silver 8400 - 8900
steel - stainless 7480 - 8000

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:18 pm

I sit corrected...

sturob, are you thinking of Dave Williams?

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:13 pm

last time i was discussing nickel plating with a maker, he told me he doesn't do the plating himself and has to send it out. the implication was that most makers (or at least some) do the metalshaping and then send it out to be plated. steel or aluminum would offer them a silver looking ornament or key without having to send it out for plating.

another benefit would be that there is no plating to irreparably wear off.

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:25 pm

Yes, Alex. I'll take "Famous Living French-born Pipemakers Working in Steel" for 50, please. And the answer is "who is Alan Froment"

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!

tk

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:47 pm

...I knew that...no, really...I did....

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:28 pm

YES! Froment! But it's Alain and not Alan.

And Antaine . . . I don't think most of the nickel silver for pipes is plated. I have seen it done (there are pics of a nickel-plated set over on the pics of your pipes thread), but most is au naturel, I think.

Nickel silver, then, in general doesn't have anything to wear off. It'll tarnish, of course.

Stuart

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:05 am

Uh, stainless steel doesn't tarnish? It's lighter then silver if you go just by the periodic table of elements? It's extremely rugged and looks pretty good, too.

liestman · Post by **liestman** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:13 am

another benefit would be that there is no plating to irreparably wear off

On the Northumbrian smallpipes that I make, I use plating, usually chrome but sometimes nickel. True, plating can and does wear off on the keys after a TON of playing for many years, but it is not irreparable. Any plater who does car parts can deplate and replate a part, presuming you can separate it from the wood. The parts that will wear (i.e. keys) can be separated, and any part that a maker glues permanently in place (which some do with tubes and ferrules) will "never" get enough wear to go through a decent plating job.

My point being, don't be afraid of plating.

djm · Post by **djm** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:06 am

My understanding is the same as Liestman has described. I have nickel plating over nickel-silver on both my JK sets. Joe's only concern was with the springs on the keys, where, if the spring breaks or needs to be replaced, the pin that is welded into the key would have to come out, and would spoil the finish. Then the plating would have to be redone.

The plating is done by an automotive plater. Do not be mislead by the DIY plating kits you can get in some hardware shops. They do not come close to the many stripping baths that a commercial plater uses. The same plating method used on car bumpers is what is used on the UP parts. It is pretty tough. You would have to go through a lot of wear and tear to damage it significantly.

djm

Antaine · Post by **Antaine** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:16 pm

my firsthand experience with getting things re-plated is mostly limited to gold plated and gold filled pocketwatches...to which my local jeweler replied "no!" and wouldn't touch it.

i was debating getting the gold leaf sheets and going over the brass parts of my pipes with real 24k gold...any opinions on that? (I mean on principle...yes it would wear after a fashion, but i could touch it up as necessary...)