any bansuri players here?

[Berti66]

are there any bansuri players on this forum.
I don't only mean bansuri as in just a bamboo flute but also in how the famous indian flautists like HC do play the bansuri.
if you have experience with this or took a class/ taught yourself, please contact me I would like to learn more about this style.

berti

[sturob]

I think Talasiga plays bansuri.

Maybe if I invoke TALASIGA by name, TALASIGA will come!




Stuart

[Denny]

Maybe if I invoke TALASIGA by name, TALASIGA will come!

Resurgence of the Lovecraft thread?

Denny

[rh]

looky here:
http://bansuri-academy.wardhan.com/

[talasiga]

I think Talasiga plays bansuri.

Maybe if I invoke TALASIGA by name, TALASIGA will come!

You see, I finally came!
It took 10 days but then,
I'm TANTRIC you know

[talasiga]

are there any bansuri players on this forum.
I don't only mean bansuri as in just a bamboo flute but also in how the famous indian flautists like HC do play the bansuri.
if you have experience with this or took a class/ taught yourself, please contact me I would like to learn more about this style.

berti

I have been playing India specific bamboo flutes (bansuri)
and other flutes since about 1970
although not consistently or much until recently
(since my retirement from a 9 to 5 situation).

There are two ways to play the bansuri (or any other simple system tube).:-

1. Settle on just one hole as the tonic for every piece that you will play on the instrument. For instance, unfortunately, it seems
to be the vogue in North Indian classical music teaching,
to have
XXX OOO as the tonic.

2. Use the hole that will give the tonic most appropriate for the mode the piece is in.
This occurs in a lot of world music including ITM and Indian folk music.
eg an Aeolian (natural minor) piece will be played from XOO OOO or XXX XXO (with a cross fingered 6th).


One advantage of method 1 is you have the option of dipping 3 to 4 notes below the tonic for you compo. and for ornamentation
(as in for eg the Londonderry Air which has XXX OOO tonic)
One of the disadvantages is that every mode other than the Lydian will require half holing, some so much so that you shirk at the prospect of playing the piece.
Admittedly, half holing is easier on a bansuri than it is on a wooden Irish flute
but can you imagine doing a natural minor from XXX OOO?
This would involve half holing the 3rd, 6th and 7th?
Are you gonna do this drut laya (at very fast tempo) in a complex melody with improvisation?
I am sure HC can play like this but beleive me, I have met quite a few
Indian trained Westerner bansuri players who baulk at playing
any piece requiring this level of half holing from XXX OOO.
Some of them are much much better flautists than me but
because their training has strait jacketed them into XXX OOO
they just plain AVOID doing the piece.
In the meantime, I, with my folk music orientation,
will be indulging in playing it from XOO OOO according to method 2.

I think the most important key for any musician
is FLEXIBILITY.

But, don't let me put you off
learning the traditional classical way.
At least you will have major and lydian scale pieces that
will be able to do proficiently within a year or so
such as
Yaman, Jet Kaliyan, Bhoop, Pahadi, Behag, Bilawal ....
and, perhaps, Mixolydian pieces requiring only half holing at the 7th
(Khamaj, JhinJhoti etc)
But, as for Bhairavi, the "apotheosis" of melancholic lyricism
- just remember: reincarnation is not an irrebuttable fact.

[talasiga]

SAMPLE PRESUMTION:
that Indian bansuri music is more meditative than ITM flute music.

Try and broaden your listening experience.
It all depends on your taste in musician and the piece being played.
I don't agree with STIGMATISING a tradition as being predominantly meditative.
Indian music is full of romantic passion, melancholy, devotional fervour,
flirtation, desperation and reflection.
There are happy pieces, sad pieces and the peace of stillness.

If you want meditative music try the British composer's,
Vaughan William's, "Lark Ascending". By ear, I think, it is based around Mixolydian mode and its feeling reminds me very much of a raag that I practise, the pentatonic Brindabani Sarang. In the D scale the notes are D E G A C D and I play it on a G bansuri from XXO OOO

Also, if you want a good listening background to South Asian bamboo flute music, go for
* Pannalal Ghosh, the grandmaster of the modern Hindustani bansuri.
* Ramani, the great exponent of the South Indian (Carnatic) bamboo flute ( called venu)

I think even HC would agree with me that he has a long way to go
before nearing Pannalal Ghosh.

[Berti66]

wow I am impressed by this explanation and it does give somebody unfamiliar with the instrument an idea what it is like.


but how about the breathing techniques, are those any different from the standard irish flute?
and how does one learn to play these pieces? I bet you have to learn them by ear because there is no written matter on this kind of music?
what tonic do you play in, and what tonic would you recomment to a newbie to try if I am already used to play a tallgrass Eb and a dixon flute?
I am not even sure that I want to learn the bansuri but it is just that my teacher told me to listen to the music and that he thought this was for me.
he could not tell WHY which was not very helpful....

thanks talasiga
greetings berti

[talasiga]

.....but how about the breathing techniques, are those any different from the standard irish flute?...........

A flute is a flute is a flute
and a breath is a breath is a breath.
I remember when I visted India in 1985
and on my early morning bus departure from Delhi
to Rishikesh, as we crossed the River Jamuna,
the Indian gentleman who had appointed himself as my guide,
pointing to the sunrise said,
"You see that. That is the Indian sun rising."

Berti, there may be some advanced air control techniques
that I am not aware of
but that is not fundamental for a beginner.

The fact is I play only bansuris that are smaller than a D key Irish flute
and they are easier to play breath wise than the ITM flute.

[talasiga]

.....and how does one learn to play these pieces? I bet you have to learn them by ear because there is no written matter on this kind of music?
.....

Indian music does not have staff notation
but that doesn't mean that it cannot be conveyed in writing.
Of course the written transmission will not do full justice to it
because every performance requires its own impromptu flourish
in terms of ornamentations and, if the piece permits - compositional developments.

There are some fundamental things you must keep in mind:-

* listen to the tradition in as full a range as possible - folk, spirituals, "heavy classical", "light classical"

* don't just listen to flute - go particularly for the vocal. Many of South Asia's foremost instrumentalists learned from song (from singers) and not from other instrumentalists

* only attempt to learn something that moves you to tears or uncontrollable delight. That is the greatest driver for learning.

* learn the Indian tonic sol-fa notation (fairly simple). Then you wiil be able to utilise the many texts available with information about the raagas etc.

* develop a good mindseye grasp of the mathematics of the major scale
and the other scales relative to it (fairly simple)

* if you find a music guru, do exactly what he or she says while under their tutelage
BUT never let them tell you what to think or feel.

* be prepared to sing. Even if you never intend to perform as a singer
you must have fundamental ability to sing the stuff you play on the flute,
if not to the same finesse as on your flute.

* if Indian music doesn't turn you on, you can play ITM on your bansuri
if its in the right key. This is very sweet. I am sure bamboo grew in Ireland prior to the last Great Ice Age.

[elizabeth]

Talasiga,

Once again I find myself printing out hard copy of your posts so that I can read them over and over. Your advice seems not only wise but beautiful too. Reading it makes me want to explore bansuri flute myself and perhaps I will. Thank you!

Elizabeth

[talasiga]

Elizabeth,
I notice from your profile that you are a metal flute maker.
Thats the Boehm style concert flutes I take it?

What would be the main challenge
in putting a metal lip plate around a bamboo embouchure.
( wouldnt do this with my Indian bansuri's which traditionally are thin walled
but am considering it for some other bamboo flutes I have).

I have also been curious about the possiblity of metal Boehm flute
but with (thick walled) bamboo head joint
for that special timbre (or bambre).

Any comments?

[elizabeth]

Talasiga,

Yes, I make Boehm style modern flutes in silver, gold & occasionally platinum. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with bamboo. Maybe one day I will try doing something with it.

If you mean to put a metal lip plate on a head with an existing embouchre hole, it seems to me that the main challenge would be to match and blend the metal to bamboo perfectly smoothly. Not awfully difficult if one is careful, but the blowing edge is critical--the seam should be as smooth as possible. You would probably want to precut the lip plate hole to match as well as possible, then use a really good adhesive to attach it. Then blend the two materials without distorting the shape and size of the hole (unless you decide the hole needs to be reshaped anyway, eg, "I meant to do that!)

Adding on a metal plate would, if nothing else changed, probably make for a stronger low register response and a more resistant high register. This is based on my experience with metal heads but remember, they are much thinner, and the bore is tapered. I don't know what the bore would look like in your bamboo flutes. Generally, the higher the riser, the larger the emb. hole can be, up to a point.

I have heard of people using a bamboo head on a metal flute, but not heard them played (at least that I am aware of). It would probably be pretty cool, though.

If you have not heard of David Chu, you might check out his website. I do not know him, but it looks as though he might be able to help you. http://www.sideblown.com

I would be very interested to hear more, keep me posted.

Best,
Elizabeth

[talasiga]

Talasiga,

Yes, I make Boehm style modern flutes in silver, gold & occasionally platinum. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with bamboo. Maybe one day I will try doing something with it.

If you mean to put a metal lip plate on a head with an existing embouchre hole, it seems to me that the main challenge would be to match and blend the metal to bamboo perfectly smoothly. Not awfully difficult if one is careful, but the blowing edge is critical--the seam should be as smooth as possible. You would probably want to precut the lip plate hole to match as well as possible, then use a really good adhesive to attach it. Then blend the two materials without distorting the shape and size of the hole (unless you decide the hole needs to be reshaped anyway, eg, "I meant to do that!)

Adding on a metal plate would, if nothing else changed, probably make for a stronger low register response and a more resistant high register. This is based on my experience with metal heads but remember, they are much thinner, and the bore is tapered. I don't know what the bore would look like in your bamboo flutes. Generally, the higher the riser, the larger the emb. hole can be, up to a point.

I have heard of people using a bamboo head on a metal flute, but not heard them played (at least that I am aware of). It would probably be pretty cool, though.

If you have not heard of David Chu, you might check out his website. I do not know him, but it looks as though he might be able to help you. http://www.sideblown.com

I would be very interested to hear more, keep me posted.

Best,
Elizabeth

A very interesting link, Elizabeth.
And thank you for your comprehensive response.
I will keep you posted.

And ..... where is your own website?

[elizabeth]

I don't have my own personal website, but the here is one for the company I work for: [url]http://www,brannenflutes.com[/url] I'm the head joint maker there.

Best wishes,
Elizabeth