Arkansas and the dialect study.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:34 am

I was reading from the state-by-state results of Harvard's USA Dialect Survey, and I noticed that the state of Arkansas, while not having identical results, had suspiciously similar results to that of my home state of Oklahoma. I know, and have known some fine people from Arkansas, and, in general, I wouldn't think too much of this kind of thing, but it occurs to me, Arkansas is sitting right there next to Oklahoma! If they come to a question they didn't understand, wouldn't it be awfully easy for them to just sneak a peak over at Oklahoma's answers?

Did Arkansas cheat?

It's hard to say. It could be just a big coincidence, but, one wonders.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:40 am

Walden wrote:I was reading from the state-by-state results of Harvard's USA Dialect Survey, and I noticed that the state of Arkansas, while not having identical results, had suspiciously similar results to that of my home state of Oklahoma. I know, and have known some fine people from Arkansas, and, in general, I wouldn't think too much of this kind of thing, but it occurs to me, Arkansas is sitting right there next to Oklahoma! If they come to a question they didn't understand, wouldn't it be awfully easy for them to just sneak a peak over at Oklahoma's answers?

Did Arkansas cheat?

It's hard to say. It could be just a big coincidence, but, one wonders.

By "Oklahoma", do you mean "Far North Texas"?

When she was around college age, my sister had a good friend from up thataways, and she picked up a bit of her accent. My mother hated it. I remember her saying, "Suzanne, quit a-talkin' through yore nose."

And how come you think the cheatin' didn't go in the other direction. (By "Arkansas", I assume you mean "Far Northeast Texas".)

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:50 am

Darwin wrote: By "Oklahoma", do you mean "Far North Texas"?

No. No. I believe you're thinking of Perryton.

We settled the border dispute years ago. Greer County remains, as nature intended it, a part of western Oklahoma.

Darwin wrote: And how come you think the cheatin' didn't go in the other direction.

Well I sure didn't cheat off 'em!

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:06 am

Walden wrote: Did Arkansas cheat?

I couldn't help it, I swear! I can easily see Oklahoma from my house, so the answers were right there in front of me!

It's still an interesting survey, as these surveys tend to include Tulsans and Little Rockers, but not Fort Smithians and Northwest Arkansas residents. I do remember one survey on the pronunciation of "wh" (e.g. Wales vs. Whales) which shows a strong distinction in Little Rock, but a weak one in Tulsa. Fort Smithians are more like Tulsans in that respect.

Watch for a new OT poll!

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:09 am

Walden wrote:Arkansas is sitting right there next to Oklahoma!

And yet, the names don't give you any clue that this is the case. What we need is an Anarchist president. The first task of this administration would be to create a better naming convention for the states, perhaps alphabetical, or following the Dewey Decimal System.

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:21 am

Can we give Oklahoma and Texas to Mexico?

Come on..bring it on Texans!

Don't Mess In Texas!!

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:23 am

SirNick wrote:Can we give Oklahoma and Texas to Mexico?

Come on..bring it on Texans!
Don't Mess In Texas!!

No, we need the oil, so we should hang on to both Oklahoma and Baja Oklahoma.

Q1: How do you really offend someone from Oklahoma?

A1: Tell them they have a Texas accent.

Q2: How do you really offend someone from Texas?

A2: Tell them they have an Oklahoma accent.

Q3: How to offend them both?

A3: Tell them they sound alike.

I have lots more

- my grandmother was born in Oklahoma, back when it was still "Indian Territory" rather than a state, and had rather . . . strong . . . opinions about that larger state to the south.

The only problem I have with folks from either state is that if I spend more than a couple of minutes talking to them I pick up their accent. I'm not a natural linguist, but I grew up hearing it, and I automatically switch my speech patterns from "US West Coast" to "Oklahoma/Texas" whenever I hear it.

Wasn't it H. Allen Smith who observed that it was a sign of a merciful God that both men and women from west Texas shared the same accent? For if the men alone were thus afflicted they'd be condemned to lives of solitude and sexual frustration.

gonzo914 · Post by **gonzo914** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:25 pm

Is that the same H. Allen Smith who once made the best chili in all Christendom and who would have proven it such at the Great Terlingua Chili Confrontation had not that lower than a snake's belly, skunk of an unwashed Texan Wick Fowler cheated?

Post by **Dale** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:36 pm

Listen to me, Waldon. I was born in Arkansas. I was raised there. My parents were both from there. My mother lives there. My brother lives there with his family. I know Arkansas and I know it well.

Arkansas cheated.

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:40 pm

Does anyone know why the words Arkansas and Kansas are pronounced completely differently? I've always wondered, and have been forced to admit defeat several times when asked this by foreign visitors. Any info on the history of these names?

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:54 pm

I just know that when I re-entered Canada in 1966 after spending a month in Kingfisher and Norman Oklahoma visiting my great aunt and families, the Canadian customs agent wouldn't believe me, when I showed her my Canadian army ID, birth certificate etc that I wasn't an American trying to pass myself off as a Canadian.

Got to remember it was the age of the draft dodgers (1964 to 1970), which Canada took a lot in.

Even my own family couldn't believe how much of an accent I picked up down there.

MarkB

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:00 pm

gonzo914 wrote:Is that the same H. Allen Smith who once made the best chili in all Christendom and who would have proven it such at the Great Terlingua Chili Confrontation had not that lower than a snake's belly, skunk of an unwashed Texan Wick Fowler cheated?

Got it in one!

The former Low Man On a Totem Pole who spent much of his Life in A Putty Knife Factory before becoming Lost In the Horse Latitudes. The author who gave the world such great literary creations as Rhubarb and the Doomsday Bookie. Him.

gonzo914 · Post by **gonzo914** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:14 pm

Reference Kansas vs. Arkansas -- Both come from Native American terms, Arkansas from the Quapaw and Kansas from the Sioux. But the French had a hand in naming Arkansas. Need I say more?

OK, I will.

Kansas was named for Konza (also called Kansa or Kaw) Indians, a Siouan tribe that lived in the area. One source said it means "people of the south wind."

Arkansas came from the Quapaw Indians, by way of early French explorers, who apparently could not properly pronounce "Ugakhpah," which means "people who live downstream".

They still live downstream, for the Arkansas River flows through both. But in Kansas, it is pronounced "Ark-Kansas" river, and it doesn't have any water in it because Colorado stole it all. There is a town called Arkansas City that is prounounced "Ark-Kansas" as well.

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:17 pm

Excellent, Gonzo, thanks very much! Now to try to memorise that...

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:22 pm

Avanutria - this won't help any, but growing up a Kansas native I always found it amusing that we have a river flowing through our state - the Arkansas river - which is pronounced Ar-Kansas and not pronounced like the state.

I know both Kansas and Arkansas are named after the Kansas (or Kanza or Kaw) indian word for southwind. I'm pretty sure the Kansas indians were not in Arkansas territory though...so I'm not sure why Arkansas was named after them.

Eric

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Arkansas and the dialect study.

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