OT: Rules of engagement?

Mark_J · Post by **Mark_J** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:36 pm

On 2002-03-02 04:40, Graphics Guy wrote:
The M-16 is a magazine fed, 5.56mm Selective fire weapon. Made mostly of Bakelite. It can fire Single shot, or 3 round bursts, this weapon is currently issued to all military units.

Will Mike Burke still make one for me, and what is the waiting list like?

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:44 pm

I had to pass two years of ROTC to graduate
college--it was required of all men at
the university I attended. As it was
the late 50s, we drilled with M1 rifles.
As I couldn't drill worth a damn, I kept
getting demerits, which I worked off
by cleaning M1 rifles. Gee, did I get
to know M1 rifles. My freshman year was
like being in the Army. We had to
assemble machine guns, too. Nothing quite
like coming from a class on Emily Dickinson's
poetry to another one where there's a
45 caliber machine gun on your desk--
not for target practice or deer hunting.

The worst fear was M1 thumb, which
happened if, upon presenting arms and
opening the bolt--which involved pushing
your thumb into the magazine--you failed
to get your thumb out fast enough when
the bolt snapped shut. I couldn't pass
ROTC and finally transferred to
another college. But at least I survived.
I figure if I'd gone through all that
with an M16 I wouldn't have enough fingers
left to play a whistle!

Graphics Guy · Post by **Graphics Guy** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:28 am

An old friend of mine from the teams,Now works for a newspaper (I forget which one)
His shtick is as an advice columnist, No matter what question he is asked, He replies
with stuff like I posted, For instance, My boyfriend/Girlfriend went on a business trip,
yada yada yada...His reply, would be something like, The M-14 is a gas operated Automatic weapon yada yada yada.
When I saw the topic "Rules for Engagment"
I couldnt resist, Sorry ..I know it was lame
But hey..It was 3 in the morning here,errr
The Moon was full....ummmm I was the victim of C.I.A. Hallucinogenic Drug testing. YEAH
There ya go

Dan

Arcaic Lemons · Post by **Arcaic Lemons** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:43 am

Okay honey bunny; I'm gonna nark on ya!!

He was laughing so hard at 3 in the morning as he posted that, he woke me up.

Oh; and Loren, the next time you're hangin' with Castro, you think you could borrow a few cigars from him and share? Just wondering...

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:53 am

On 2002-03-02 23:44, jim stone wrote:
I had to pass two years of ROTC to graduate
college--
not for target practice or deer hunting.

I couldn't pass
ROTC and finally transferred to
another college.

Gee, Jim. I thought I was the worst ROTC student ever. I won't get started on all my tales but one ended with "Mr Kendall, you'r shooting at the wrong target" being announced on a loudspeaker. But I wasn't shooting at the wrong target. That just happened to be the one I hit. I never heard of anybody actually flunking though. That's great.

Steve

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:48 pm

It was 1960 and my birthday. I had to go
to drill. 'No more demerits for me!'
I said. I cleaned and pressed my uniform,
spit shined my shoes, shaved carefully, and
marched with esprit de corps. When
the time came, I presented arms with a
snap. The officer continued down the line
and then turned back. 'Cadet,' he said,
'your belt buckle is buckled backwards.
Two demerits!'

Looking down the line
I saw that the plume of everyone else's
tunic belt was pointing to the left;
mine was pointing to the right.

I gently placed my M1 on the ground,
for 6 demerits, and walked out of drill,
for 5 million demerits.

A decade later the students burned down
the ROTC building.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 2:41 pm

I gently placed my M1 on the ground,
for 6 demerits, and walked out of drill,
for 5 million demerits.

Well, you are certainly now on my roster of military heros. My previous big hero was Tom, a freind who did his army physical at the same time I did. With a couple of extremely deft maneuvers that would have done Felix Krull proud he managed to get himself classified 4-F although there was really nothing wrong with him Nothing physical, anyway.

Steve

Graphics Guy · Post by **Graphics Guy** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 8:12 pm

Not to flame anyone ,or start a discussion on moral rights but. I spent 15 years in the U.S. Navy. I left as an O-5. During that time
I have been shot,knifed,choked, Had pretty much all my bones broken at one time or another, Met Presidents,Protesters,Flown almost every Military Aircraft in our inventory. I've given orders which killed men or had men killed.Been spit on, Sworn at,
and Reviled. And I'm still proud to have the uniform and to have served.

Dan

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 8:49 pm

I think you should be proud. My comments
were meant to make fun of me, not
the military. My act wasn't one of protest;
just acquiescing to the inevitable--I
was a hopeless soldier.

I like the Catholic slogan--
'If you want peace, work for justice'--
but I would add this phrase 'and carry
a big stick!'

I remember Felix Krull, from Thomas Mann.
Thanks for reminding me!

In 1965 I was able
to persuade the Army that I was
mentally unstable--but I was! I wouldn't
have gone to Vietnam even if I could
have cut it, though. I thought the
war was wrong and that the government
was lying to us--but in the process
people got too radicalized and thought
somehow it was the military that was
part of the problem. In a democracy
the military does what the government
tells it to do. We rejected
authority, many of us, because so
much of what we had seen of it had been
corrupt--but of course we didn't
understand there was a baby in the
bathwater. Authority is necessary,
the military is necessary. We're
free today because of those who
served in the horrific wars of the
last century, especially WWII, and
to those who died, well, there is
no way to calculate our debt to them.

Graphics Guy · Post by **Graphics Guy** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:20 pm

I apologise, I came off a bit strong in my last post,

Dan

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:24 pm

On 2002-03-03 21:12, Graphics Guy wrote:
I spent 15 years in the U.S. Navy. I left as an O-5. During that time
I have been shot,knifed,choked, Had pretty much all my bones broken at one time or another, Met Presidents,Protesters,Flown almost every Military Aircraft in our inventory. I've given orders which killed men or had men killed.

Dan

Never before, in the history of this message board, has one person, in a single post, sent my BS detector so far off the scale........

Loren

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:28 pm

No problem. I think I know where it
comes from. And thanks for serving.

As a philosopher, by the way, I did
in the early 80s a fair amount of work on nuclear deterrence theory; also on just war
theory. The more I learned the more
conservative I became. My initial
post was influenced a bit by all that.

Arcaic Lemons · Post by **Arcaic Lemons** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:41 pm

On 2002-03-03 22:24, Loren wrote:
On 2002-03-03 21:12, Graphics Guy wrote:
I spent 15 years in the U.S. Navy. I left as an O-5. During that time
I have been shot,knifed,choked, Had pretty much all my bones broken at one time or another, Met Presidents,Protesters,Flown almost every Military Aircraft in our inventory. I've given orders which killed men or had men killed.

Dan

Never before, in the history of this message board, has one person, in a single post, sent my BS detector so far off the scale........

Loren

This was uncalled for, unwarrented and it HURTS. Considering you have no idea who Dan is, what he has done, nor primarily what he stands for but what he has shared on this board, your opinion is ignorant at best. But, then again, from what I have read from you, you come across as a hateful and dissatisfied man anyway. ::::shrugs::: Flame away. After stating this, I could really care less what you stand for or what you care about.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:09 pm

Well, no need to take it too seriously.
Loren isn't hateful--I think it's
traumatic stress disorder he said.

Dan, Archaic Lemon, we recognize
the ring of truth. Night to all.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:49 pm

On 2002-03-03 22:41, Arcaic Lemons wrote:
On 2002-03-03 22:24, Loren wrote:
On 2002-03-03 21:12, Graphics Guy wrote:
I spent 15 years in the U.S. Navy. I left as an O-5. During that time
I have been shot,knifed,choked, Had pretty much all my bones broken at one time or another, Met Presidents,Protesters,Flown almost every Military Aircraft in our inventory. I've given orders which killed men or had men killed.

Dan

Never before, in the history of this message board, has one person, in a single post, sent my BS detector so far off the scale........

Loren
This was uncalled for, unwarrented and it HURTS. Considering you have no idea who Dan is, what he has done, nor primarily what he stands for but what he has shared on this board, your opinion is ignorant at best. But, then again, from what I have read from you, you come across as a hateful and dissatisfied man anyway. ::::shrugs::: Flame away. After stating this, I could really care less what you stand for or what you care about.

First off, it's precisely because I do have a high respect for those people who risk their lives serving in our armed forces that I couldn't let that post pass by unanswered. What was written is so unlikely that I believe it to be false, and therefore and insult to those who have served, some paying the ultimate price. Here are my reasons for questioning the validity of the post:

Dan claims to have flown "almost every aircraft in our inventory", this alone is incredibly unlikely - very few Military Aviators would have the opportunity to qualify as pilots in so many aircraft, perhaps some instructors, and the aviators who become career test pilots, but then it would be highly unlikely that these same people (in the span of 15 short years) would not only qualify and log left seat time in so many different aircraft, (are we talking fixed wing and rotary wing here Dan? Fighters, bombers and tankers and heavy lift? Are we including VTOL like the Harrier and Osprey? No, perhaps Dan served before the advent of those types of vertical take off and landing aircraft, but then that would be quite some time ago.....Still, even during the Vietnam era, we must have had over 100 aircraft in our inventory, everything from light amphibious single piston powered aircraft, to twin bladed Chinook heavy lift helicopters (My grandfather worked for Boeing/Vertol), anyway, my point here being that there are/were so many aircraft in our military inventory (even if you just count Naval), that anyone who qualified to pilot so many would hardly have had the time or opportunity to be in units where they would be exposed to being knifed, choked, shot and have had every bone in their body broken. Every bone in your body? Even I don't think we should discuss POW treatment here, but every bone? That's.....hard to believe, especially when added to everything else being claimed. Even if a person were an aviator in a Special Warfare Unit, I can't see all the things claimed in Dan's post coming together.

Here's the other thing: People who have been knifed, choked and shot. People who have given orders that got men killed, and people who have seen men, women and children killed tend not to talk about these things. They tend not to bring them up, especially not in public forums related to things as trivial as tin whistles.

I have other reasons for disbelieving, but that's enough for the moment.

I will admit that anything is possible, and I could be wrong, but the odds are VERY much with me on this. I will also say, as I have in the past; If I am proven wrong, I will gladly apologize publicly, and in this case, if everything Dan says were proven to be true, he would have my utmost respect. If however what he has said is not true, then he is seriously insulting all who have served and sacrificed, and that IMO, shouldn't be allowed to go unchallenged.

Loren

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-03-04 00:04 ]</font>