Crop Circles

Post by **Dale** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:26 am

I just saw a fascinating documentary on SCI-FI TV about crop circles. I've been vaguely aware of these, but didn't know much about them. I had no idea how they evolved from fairly simply circles in the early 80's to extraordinarily complex examples of fractals, Euclidian geometry, and "sacred" art. The documentary has me blown away and forced to think that one of the following must be true, any one of which ought to be getting more attention.

1. Some kind of intelligence, unknown to us is, by forces very poorly understood, if not unknown to us, is creating these formations.

2. Some kind of astounding natural processes are at play. Which I don't get, either, after looking at these formations.

3. They are the result human hoaxter/artisans who are vastly intelligent, apparently incapable of blunder, located--or willing to travel--all over the world, and completely obsessed.

P.S. I don't believe 2 or 3.

The documentary was CROP CIRCLES: QUEST FOR TRUTH. It airs, I guess, occasionally on TV and is available on DVD from Netflix, amazon.com and other outlets. I couldn't recommend it more highly.

Dale

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:04 pm

So...their exposure as hoaxes a few years back has been exposed as a hoax?

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:12 pm

Very good Emm,

If this was a poll ,I would have to go with option three.

Slan,
D.

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:32 pm

Interesting Dale, when I read the thread that you locked, I was noticing your avatar at the time, this posting now comes as no surprise to me...wierd!

MarkB

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:34 pm

I don't doubt that some, if not many, are hoaxes, but the numbers of crop circles appearing at times has been simply astonishing. Either there are thousands of hoaxsters all over the world or something unusual is up. I can't imagine that the number of competent hoaxsters has the time to create all of these things that pop up, but the more complex they are the more likely I personally think that they're hoaxes.

Anyone seen the ground after a dust devil is at work? Anyone seen the ground where a tornado briefly touches down, darn near straight down, then pops back up (I've seen trees thrown in a circle).

If I were to vote, I'd opt for hoaxes and natural phenomena.

Eric

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:39 pm

Santa Claus and his elves get bored during the spring/summer season and the endless hours of daylight so they take off around the world to have a bit of fun.

MarkB

kevin m. · Post by **kevin m.** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:46 pm

Whilst I have an interest in all things 'Wierd',I have a healthily skeptical attitude (the most valid attitude IMHO if we are to make any headway in studying many so called 'Mysteries').
I'm afraid that I currently go with option 3.
Nevertheless,even if you consider crop circes to be a form of 'Landart'(as I currently do-anticipating the question "So WHO is the Artist?"),they are still beautiful aren't they?
As an aside,I've been reading bits and Pieces (The Guardian from Mon 14/6/04,for example),that the 'Wierd' is dying on its feet (or tentacles,or whatever).People just aren't reporting sightings of Ghosts,UFO'S and other phenomena anywhere as near as much as they used to.
Theories to explain this for this range from 'we use so much of the elecronic spectrum(mobile phones etc)that there just isn't the bandwidth for Ghosts anymore' to everyone is so worried about 'Real' dangers-'Terrorism',Iraq,post 9/11 etc,that we just don't have the time to spend thinking about imaginary 'Bogeymen' like Ghosts,Monsters and Alien Abductors armed with their nasty probes!

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:57 pm

It's the Crystal Peop////////38260////////////=disconnect.search/destroy.INITIATE

*blip*

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:59 pm

kevin m. wrote: As an aside,I've been reading bits and Pieces (The Guardian from Mon 14/6/04,for example),that the 'Wierd' is dying on its feet (or tentacles,or whatever).People just aren't reporting sightings of Ghosts,UFO'S and other phenomena anywhere as near as much as they used to.

Might this be because the last dozen or so reportings of UFOs from Tyne and Wear turned out on investigation to be the sun?

SirNick · Post by **SirNick** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:03 pm

I'm with Dale on this one. I've seen a few various programs on the subject, each time I'm amazed. There are admitted groups of people creating very nice indeed crop circles. But, the quantity and complexity of many of these, not to mention the speed with which they are created leaves a very large variable that "man-made" doesn't quite fit neatly into. There's most likely forces in this world that are so different from what we know, that they are maybe even outside the vastness of our imagination.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:06 pm

Crop Circle hoaxers are like tin whistle players. They're all over the place.
There is no escape ...

Slan,
D.

Post by **Dale** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:22 pm

emmline wrote:So...their exposure as hoaxes a few years back has been exposed as a hoax?

Not exactly. There seems little doubt that some crop circles are hoaxes. The researches who believe that there are genuine crop circles are always on the lookout for hoaxes and dismiss some of the formations as likely hoaxes.

The guys who came forward to say they are making some of the circles in the middle of the night demonstrated they did it. And there's just no way that would account for all of them. No way. And, believe me, I approach this stuff with a healthy skepticism.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:22 pm

I have to say that the pseudoscience on Sci-Fi and its Canadian counterpart, Space, really irks me.

OK, so Dale comments on a documentary on a channel called Sci-FI (my emphasis)? Do Sci-Fi/Space put these things forth as real scientific investigations, or as quasi-scientific neat-o stories about crap for which there's really no evidence of anything supernatural?

Hmm. I didn't realize this stuff bothered me as much as it does until I started writing this message. I've not seen this particular documentary, honestly, but I have seen shows on Space/Sci-Fi about various other phenomena . . . hauntings, UFOs, and the like.

I wonder about the connection between channels which put themselves forth as purveyors of science-fiction and such "investigations." Does that kind of thing bother anyone else, or am I just psychotic? Do I make any sense at all?

I suppose I don't really draw any distinction between "fantasy" (e.g., Lord of the Rings) and "science-fiction" (e.g., Star Wars). Star Trek and its stepchildren are harder to classify since they're more space-opera/science fantasy than the archetypes of the genres, but I digress. I think perhaps sci-fi might be more acceptable than fantasy to scientists in that they could claim it's an extrapolation of what we have now, rather than pure fantasy (faster-than-light travel vs. magic). So, do the folks programming these stations think that parascience is more appealing to folks who are already willing to engage in fantasy entertainment?

So perhaps what I'm really wondering is if the documentary were intended as investigation or entertainment. I find the shows on Sci-Fi/Space that deal with hauntings, for example, quite entertaining, but I do worry that they're put forth as scientific investigations . . .

Do I have no sense of whimsy . . . have I missed the point? Comments welcomed. Or, ignore me; I don't mean to hijack the thread.

Stuart

Post by **Dale** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:23 pm

dubhlinn wrote:
Very good Emm,

If this was a poll ,I would have to go with option three.

Slan,
D.

I bet you wouldn't if you looked into it a bit more. (I'm presuming you haven't).

Dale

Post by **Dale** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:24 pm

MarkB wrote:Santa Claus and his elves get bored during the spring/summer season and the endless hours of daylight so they take off around the world to have a bit of fun.

MarkB

THAT'S IT!!