Not OT, PC : the sound of recorders vs whistles

[Zubivka]

Many here complain about *bleep* brand whistles, which don't look close to recorders, sounding like recorders.
Others say some whistles look like recorders.
Trisha and I have recorders which I'd defy anyone to tell from a trad whistle in a blind test. Or even with one's eyes open...
So, in order to get a democratic consensus and also fill a missing entry in the Encyclopædia Galactica my question is:

What do you dislike most in recorders?

PS: Some options may seem misleading to you.
Please don't spoil the statistics by pointing them out, and let everyone vote spontaneously!

PS: Some obvious alternatives are missing, because of the limited number of options allowed in these polls.
So, you escaped :

• • They're in yucky plastic, I prefer luscious tin
  • They're in olivewood, like peppermills
  • How the heck do you spell Mollenhour?
  • Recorders suck, is all
  • They just sound like Sus*bleep* whistles
  • I never found where you clamp the reed
  • I prefer acoustic instruments
  (etc.)

[Zubivka]

Rats! I fell in the "poll editing trap". Now it stutters...

[Jens_Hoppe]

How do I vote "All of the above (except the last)"?

[BoneQuint]

I like recorders, but they do tend to sound "hooty." It can be hard to tell the difference if played with whistle technique, though. I was listening to some neo-trad-folk album the other day, and thought, "oh cool, whistle." But it was somehow unsatisfying -- somehow a bit too "tame" or something. Then it dawned on me -- it was a recorder.

Whistle: Tweedle-eee-diddly-doo
Recorder: hoodle-ooo-widdly-hoo

[sturob]

Hey, they DO come in D, you know.

The size called a "voice flute" is in D, same pitch as our low D whistle.

And fully-chromatic, too, people . . . come on, you KNOW you want one.

Stuart

[Zubivka]

Hey, they DO come in D, you know.

The size called a "voice flute" is in D, same pitch as our low D whistle.

And fully-chromatic, too, people . . . come on, you KNOW you want one.

Stuart

Yup, low D. Now are Renaissance recorders true recorders, or 8-hole whistles? The issue cries for another poll...

As for fully-chromatic, I didn't have enough options for "Yucch! they can't even manage to be truly diatonic".

Amazing... so far, 12 votes, and the majority took the last option!

• And the thumbhole of evyl DIDST castst the shadow of its, err... sooty-nailed toes over the whistlin' County!

[littlejohngael]

I'm willing to be open, honest and real here, because I know you folks won't laugh at me. ... well ... okay, maybe Steven would laugh, or at least poke fun at me , but heck, it's for science so I'll risk it.

What I hate -- and have always hated -- about re*bleep*ers is that I have a very hard time playing them. The second octave ... those lousy things have a second octave??? I mean, really. Maybe -- and this might very well be the case -- maybe I've never tried a real one. Maybe it's because all I own is a couple of nasty cheap plastic ones. I thought I had a real one. It's brown and I've had it as long as I can remember, but playing it is so hard to do. It's touchy in the first octave and so much so that its second octave seems to be its first octave. So maybe I started out life with a bias. ...

As an aside, my 3-year-old son went to a carnival a month ago and won a prize. He picked the transparent yellow re*bleep*er with silver sparkles. (And quite honestly, it plays better than the brown one.) He got it for me, bless his little heart.

Now I know, I know, it points to bad parenting on my part that the lad can't tell the difference between a tinwhistle and a re*bleep*er, but let's not forget that the Zoobster has one that he'd "defy anyone to tell from a trad whistle in a blind test. Or even with one's eyes open..." So if you couldn't do it with your eyes open, then neither could a 3-year-old.

But I digress, are the baroque ones any easier to play?

Little John

[Hiro Ringo]

What did Johann Mattheson once said of Recorders in his book?
This is not so correct as I expect but he said like 'easy to play,not qualified for long time listening,taking much more air than any woodwinds'. Something like that(and he valued baroque flutes very highly).

I agree with him and even in those days(when the recorders were fresh and new),the same opinion as mine existed. I dont need revival recorders at all. I need 'revoiced' recorders to this modern age.

I like recorders but I hate (almost)monotonous choice in voicing(they might mean to be like that to get good chromatic sound but after all I have no idea of why). Thats very different from the case of tinwhistles in these days.

Ah ,yes. I wont mind if those rocorders hold only 6 holes!

[JessieK]

Good question...though I can't vote, because the poll ended up too weird.

I don't like the second octave on most recorders...it's screechy in the upper notes.

[emmline]

How about: Forced to play ugly spitty plastic things in 2nd grade. Intense dislike of icky plastic mold edges. Shape is tacky. Name is dumb. What, pray tell, do they "record?"

Am willing to accept rebuttal from holistic, intelligent players purveying haunting wood baroque sound.

[kevin m.]

Hey, they DO come in D, you know.

The size called a "voice flute" is in D, same pitch as our low D whistle.

And fully-chromatic, too, people . . . come on, you KNOW you want one.

Stuart

Yup, low D. Now are Renaissance recorders true recorders, or 8-hole whistles? The issue cries for another poll...

As for fully-chromatic, I didn't have enough options for "Yucch! they can't even manage to be truly diatonic".

Amazing... so far, 12 votes, and the majority took the last option!

• And the thumbhole of evyl DIDST castst the shadow of its, err... sooty-nailed toes over the whistlin' County!

I particularly enjoy playing my Tenor (C),which can be thought of as a chromatic low D whistle,with a couple of extra notes(with keys)stuck on the end.A voice flute would be very interesting.
Also,I find my Bass and Great Bass Recorders to be remarkable instruments to play-everyone has the idea, from primary school,that the recorder is a plastic shrieky thing about a foot long,played by six year olds -the Great Bass could beat up a six year old! (o.k.-slight exaggeration there).
Ren. Recorders are starting to interest me-especially since I heard Marion Van Bruggen's recordings of selections of 'Der Fluyten Lust Hof'('The Recorder's pleasure Garden') collected by Jacob van Eyck in the early part of the 17th century.
My next Recorder purchase may be a 'DreamFlute',as they look like fun-esp. the Blue or Red versions with gold banding!-and would suit a wide variety of music.

[Zubivka]

Am willing to accept rebuttal from holistic, intelligent players purveying haunting wood baroque sound.

Why? you have a rare custom whistle on emergency order from Brewerpaul?

I like recorders but I hate (almost)monotonous choice in voicing(they might mean to be like that to get good chromatic sound but after all I have no idea of why). Thats very different from the case of tinwhistles in these days.

Some manufacturers, like Mollenhauer for its "modern" alto model now offer the choice between "baroque" and "modern" sound colour.

My Silberton in C--the one I alluded to--is voicable "on the fly" for a pure or complex/breathy sound, depending how you set the head-cap. Mine is in the "German" fingering system, i.e. exactly as your special "D melodic-minor" tubes, except it also has an extra low C with the pinkie finger. The F-nat fingering is the only difference between baroque (more accurately "Dolmetsch", or Modern) fingering, and German.

Also, the pronouncedly conical bore of the Baroque models seems to weaken the sound generally, and the low end particularly. Now, I may be mistaken here: the window on most recorders is quite short (lengthwise) which will weaken the low end as well. Note the Silberton is cylindrical, just as a whistle. YOU need one

Chromatic: the upper four holes need to be rather small. For an example, if the third one (from top) is too big, you can't get better than an undecently sharp G# (most high-end whistles fall exactly in this case), because cross-fingering still lets too much air get in from the A hole, and not enough thru the bell end. Note both finger this xxo xxx (o).
And recorders still have to deal with the F#...

[kevin m.]

Name is dumb. What, pray tell, do they "record?"

Am willing to accept rebuttal from holistic, intelligent players purveying haunting wood baroque sound.

Well I'm not Holistic,or intelligent for that matter ,but I can tell you that small fipple flutes were used several hundred years ago to teach caged birds to sing having themes played over and over again to them.
These Birds were then said to be 'Recorded'.
Thus the name 'Recorder' was given to the type of 'Flute' used(usually a sopranino sized one).
'The Bird Fanciers delight' is available in facsimile,if you fancy giving it a go.
Even now I am teaching a Condor to sqwauk with my GreatBass!

[kevin m.]

And another thing-they ARE available in Eb,Bb etc (admittedly,hand made to order).Piers adams,virtuoso Recorderist with group 'Red Priest' plays 'em.
Gosh,I HAVE been doing my homework recently!

[amar]

kevin...you're starting to worry me...this might not be your appropriate board NO LONGER!!


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