Ted Anderson

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:52 am

I wish to begin growing Arundo Donax for reeds, and I have heard that Mr. Ted Anderson is the fellow who could give me a good deal of wisdom in this matter. From what I have been told, he lives somewhere in California...yeah, I know, that really nails it down...but if anybody out there can help me track him down I would greatly appreciate it. Or, if anyone else has some insight regarding this matter of growing cane...I'm all ears. Thanks a bunch.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:45 am

I don't think he raises it but harvests it from the wild arundo donax.

It is considered an invasive weed in California.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:55 am

Yup, this I know. I was more interested in picking his brain regarding the harvesting the stuff...time of year, what to avoid, diameter etc. After a brief surf on the net, I discovered that the stuff grows wild within the very county of Florida where I reside. I'm gonna have to pull on my snake proof boots and do a little exploratory swamp trekking.

I'm a thinkin' it'd be a pretty cool thing to come across 'groves' of the stuff.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:05 am

From the UP mailing list:

I learned about cane harvesting from Dan Sullivan (R.I.P.), who suppliedLeo R. with cane, and Shawn Folsom who also showed me the ropes. Danalways cut only dead standing cane and I have found the best fromfollowing this advice. When I first started cutting cane I found thatthere was a wide variety of types available here in Calif. Some was toohard, little was too soft, and like porridge, some was just right. Thetoo soft stuff is "punky" and will not vibrate. The hard cane must bescraped/sanded very thin in order to vibrate and is most prone to vary inbehavior due to climatic changes. The soft cane, prefered by Leo R.,Paddy K., Geoff W., Cillian O'B., Kirk Lynch, Benedict K., David Q.,Alain F. etc. etc., will start to crow with very litlle of the caneremoved at the start of the scraping process. Consequently the bladeswill end up thicker than with hard cane. These thicker blades are morestable and change less and more slowly in changing temperatures andhumidities. Reeds from this cane produce a "darker" mellower tone thancan be had from harder cane. I tried the sink % test once and got a 46%from a good piece. Bassoon players need harder cane as they play wetreeds. They find my favorite UP cane "too soft". Yes, reeds can be madefrom plastic and other synthetics, but at a tonal sacrifice. When I firststarted I tried wheat-germ oil to treat or "climatize" reeds. I also usedsome other products but abandoned such experiments in favor of findingcane which I could make thicker reeds from. The treated reeds mightchange less but were tonally inferior to untreated cane in a hardness(softness) range which produced reeds prefered by most all the top namesof pro pipers you can name. Without exception,none of these players Iknow of use treated reeds. They have gone through the process ofmastering their reeds in various conditions which any serious piper must.If you want the timbre available to Paddy Keenan or Liam O'Flynn etc.this is the path to follow. If you don't give a damn about the finepoints of tone then by all means treat away or try carbon fiber or othersynthetics. You can end up with fairly stable reeds that sound God-awfulto a discerning ear. Enough of such pontification.Wet reed players prefer cane which is two years old at harvest which thecommercial growers can control. By cutting cane which has died of oldage, you may get softer cane. I have tried commercial field grown canefrom Rico Reeds in California and find it much too hard. Spanish canefrom Madir is now commercially grown and fed artificial fertilizers. Ifind most recient Spanish and French cane too hard. I am sure you couldcut wild cane in Spain, France or wherever and come up with soft cane,depending on the soil and other growing conditions. I went to Sardinia acouple of years ago and studied reed making (single) with Pitano Pera andother launeddas players. They have the hardest cane I've come across.Their lore says cane wants to sing and be musical. They scoff at treatingreeds. I have tried cutting green cane and still prefer the cane whichdied on its own. Yes, one year old cane will wither like a corn stalk.Dan Sullivan used to cut cane on Sonoma Creek. Project Arundo hasdestroyed all those cane-breaks and many others that used to producelovely cane. Most of my best sources are now extinct! I find one mustsample cut from many sources and go back only to those which give goodresults. I am getting very little good cane these days. I can no longersupply large boxes full in exchange for chanters etc. as in times past.After I cut the cane I put it in the rafters for at least two more years.The reed people say cane must cure at least three years to be stable. Itnot a matter of drying which happens the first year, but curing. Thesugars etc. in the sap slowly go through chemical changes which stabilizein about three years. Hurrying the process produces an inferior product.Micro -waving and sunning all produce harder cane. Green cane needs sunthe first year only.Drone cane is another matter. I have a few places that produce dronesizes right out of the ground. The branches of some hard cane is OK, butbranches from soft cane crush easily and are unsuitable for drone reeds.Green cane for double reeds is cut in winter so less sap is in it. I cutdrone cane green in the summer for more springiness in these smalldiameters. They can be sunned with the leaf on or shade cured with itoff. As drone cane is rare in California, I used to get it from Spain.However, they send almost no tenor drone sizes. These are reserved forNorthumbrian smallpipe drones. A kilo of UP drone cane and a kilo of NSPshould be ordered to get enough tenor sizes. You will also end up with alot of cane too small for the union pipes.

Keep an eye out for the 'gators... I found out in Georgia how fast those suckers can run when they want to.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:17 am

Thanks a million for the article! It should prove very useful on my excursions. Gators? Not a problem, I have great deal of experience being around them having spent a bunch of time in the 'bush' around here as well as having worked at a golf course (golf being my other obssession) where on any given day they would outnumber the golfers on the course. Yes, they can really MOVE if they have a need to (about 40 mph in short spurts), but I find that for the most part they usually move that fast to get out of my way. Must be my lack of deoderant I'm thinking.

Where folks really need to be cautious is at the water's edge, where Gators do a good deal of their hunting business.

My real concern is accidentally stepping on a Cottonmouth and getting bitten for my clumsiness.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:02 am

Thanks for posting that, fancyp. Ted's the man alright. I use to play with reeds that were made by Dan Sullivan, as I inherited one of his last sets of pipes (Ted knows the set well). That cane was exquisite. BTW, Tim Britton HAD to take my best chanter reed apart to see what made it play so nice. He determined it was the cane. He then tied it back together and it never played the same again. That's why I keep emphasizing that tying a reed is as important as knowing all the rest and having good cane. I've always missed that reed sorely. It was so easy and snappy. So perfect. Never played another like it. But at least I know the difference, and I carry that with me.

I seperated some of the words from Ted's email, hope you don't mind. It's worth repeating, and should be a little easier on the eyes. Esp. notice what he says about synthetics and treated cane, for those of that irresistible persuasion.

-from Ted Anderson
I learned about cane harvesting from Dan Sullivan (R.I.P.), who supplied Leo R. with cane, and Shawn Folsom who also showed me the ropes. Dan always cut only dead standing cane and I have found the best from following this advice. When I first started cutting cane I found that there was a wide variety of types available here in Calif. Some was too hard, little was too soft, and like porridge, some was just right. The too soft stuff is "punky" and will not vibrate. The hard cane must be scraped/sanded very thin in order to vibrate and is most prone to vary in behavior due to climatic changes. The soft cane, prefered by Leo R., Paddy K., Geoff W., Cillian O'B., Kirk Lynch, Benedict K., David Q., Alain F. etc. etc., will start to crow with very little of the cane removed at the start of the scraping process. Consequently the blades will end up thicker than with hard cane. These thicker blades are more stable and change less and more slowly in changing temperatures and humidities. Reeds from this cane produce a "darker" mellower tone than can be had from harder cane. I tried the sink % test once and got a 46% from a good piece. Bassoon players need harder cane as they play wet reeds. They find my favorite UP cane "too soft". Yes, reeds can be made from plastic and other synthetics, but at a tonal sacrifice. When I first started I tried wheat-germ oil to treat or "climatize" reeds. I also used some other products but abandoned such experiments in favor of finding cane which I could make thicker reeds from. The treated reeds might change less but were tonally inferior to untreated cane in a hardness (softness) range which produced reeds prefered by most all the top names of pro pipers you can name. Without exception, none of these players I know of use treated reeds. They have gone through the process of mastering their reeds in various conditions which any serious piper must. If you want the timbre available to Paddy Keenan or Liam O'Flynn etc. this is the path to follow. If you don't give a damn about the finepoints of tone then by all means treat away or try carbon fiber or other synthetics. You can end up with fairly stable reeds that sound God-awful to a discerning ear. Enough of such pontification. Wet reed players prefer cane which is two years old at harvest which the commercial growers can control. By cutting cane which has died of oldage, you may get softer cane. I have tried commercial field grown cane from Rico Reeds in California and find it much too hard. Spanish cane from Madir is now commercially grown and fed artificial fertilizers. I find most recent Spanish and French cane too hard. I am sure you could cut wild cane in Spain, France or wherever and come up with soft cane, depending on the soil and other growing conditions. I went to Sardinia a couple of years ago and studied reed making (single) with Pitano Pera and other launeddas players. They have the hardest cane I've come across. Their lore says cane wants to sing and be musical. They scoff at treating reeds. I have tried cutting green cane and still prefer the cane which died on its own. Yes, one year old cane will wither like a corn stalk. Dan Sullivan used to cut cane on Sonoma Creek. Project Arundo has destroyed all those cane-breaks and many others that used to produce lovely cane. Most of my best sources are now extinct! I find one must sample cut from many sources and go back only to those which give good results. I am getting very little good cane these days. I can no longer supply large boxes full in exchange for chanters etc. as in times past. After I cut the cane I put it in the rafters for at least two more years. The reed people say cane must cure at least three years to be stable. It not a matter of drying which happens the first year, but curing. The sugars etc. in the sap slowly go through chemical changes which stabilize in about three years. Hurrying the process produces an inferior product. Micro-waving and sunning all produce harder cane. Green cane needs sun the first year only. Drone cane is another matter. I have a few places that produce drone sizes right out of the ground. The branches of some hard cane is OK, but branches from soft cane crush easily and are unsuitable for drone reeds. Green cane for double reeds is cut in winter so less sap is in it. I cut drone cane green in the summer for more springiness in these small diameters. They can be sunned with the leaf on or shade cured with it off. As drone cane is rare in California, I used to get it from Spain. However, they send almost no tenor drone sizes. These are reserved for Northumbrian smallpipe drones. A kilo of UP drone cane and a kilo of NSP should be ordered to get enough tenor sizes. You will also end up with a lot of cane too small for the union pipes.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:10 am

Groovy, thanks for the reply. I have been surfing the net again, in an attempt to try and pin point exactly where I am going to begin my search. There is a state park just up the road from me (one of my favorite places to pipe in the early morning) and I am thinking about asking them permission to hunt and harvest any cane that I find. I can't imagine a problem with that and I would think that they would be happy to see it gone, but one never knows. It is also likely that they have erradicated it already. There are also a gazillion pot hole ponds and swamps along side many of the older roads around here that could be potentially good for finding cane.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:13 am

Thanks. Apparently, this bbs doesn't handle quotes correctly as the format was OK when posted on on ot the other boards.

Debbie Quigley commented on the nice tone of my chanter at the tionol, whose reed was treated in neetsfoot oil.

The difference I hear in treated and untreated reeds is decreased sensitivity (or less rapid) to humidity swings.

I think I will stick to my method

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:12 am

Joseph, I personally hate trying to tunnel through David Daye's web site, but Day did do some experiments in growing his own cane. I think you will find that he has written a bit about what he was doing there.

djm

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:19 am

Yeah, he has a veritable library for a web site.

I will go a sifting through it. Thanks much for the info. I plan to spend this afternoon, T-Storms permitting, looking for the seemingly not so ellusive Arundo Donax.

It has occured to me, however, that if the state of Florida has spent a good chunk of change trying to erradicate AD from the wild, they may frown on my growing it in my back yard. Hmmmmm......

feadogin · Post by **feadogin** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:58 am

Ted posts here occasionally. His name is "Ted."

J.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:18 pm

Ahhh. I was wondering whether it may be the same fellow.

vanfleet · Post by **vanfleet** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:32 am

Just a suggestion, but I saw the most fantastic stand of Arundo donax growing at . . . a miniature golf course in South Carolina!!
No idea when it would die off and need to be cut back in southern climes. Perhaps easier to get it from a place like this than to hunt it in the wild.
Here in central PA I grow it in my back yard, the very wet spring has been good for it, already about 4 feet tall. It dies off and starts drying up in November, I cut it in March.
Probably not a problem in Florida, but every ice storm is an agony, as I watch to see if my "crop" will survive unbent.
JVF

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:48 pm

I found a faily young stand of it alongside an interstate highway near to me. Too young to harvest, and all of the dead standing I could see, without wading into the rattlesnakes, looked pretty ragged. BUT, where there's some, there's more. I used to work at a golf course down the road, and I seem to recall some rather suspicous looking reed like thingies growing there. Thanks for the reminder Mr. Vanfleet.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Ted Anderson

Ted Anderson

source for Arundo