Looking for critiques on my flute playing

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talasiga
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Post by talasiga »

yes, I agree with this:-
peeplj wrote: (with underlining and bolding by talasiga).......

Most of the criticisms I would have revolve around things you could be doing with the tune but aren't; this tune cries out for the occasional breath pulse, for instance, or a few well-placed off-beat accents. Something to break it up a bit and give the ear a contrast. Even varying the jig rhythm from straight to a bit more swing from figure to figure would help.......

Someone wrote you sounded very comfortable in your playing; I'd agree, and say maybe a bit too much. Do something to add a bit of fire and with everything else you're doing right, you'll really bring smiles and start feet to tapping.

this is exactly what I was on about.
People who don't like me can just ignore me
if peeplj's comment is more comprehensible and useful to them.

Kind Regards.
:)
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chas
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Post by chas »

Your playing sounds great to me, Murph. Might I ask how long you've been playing?
peeplj wrote: this tune cries out for the occasional breath pulse, for instance, or a few well-placed off-beat accents. Something to break it up a bit and give the ear a contrast. Even varying the jig rhythm from straight to a bit more swing from figure to figure would help.
I'd be interested a little bit of general discussion of off-beat accents. I've been learning a couple of Tommy Peoples reels from the second Mairead and Frankie album. The second one has some high notes that are on unaccented notes. The tune just didn't feel like a reel because of the sort-of natural syncopation from those notes coming out louder than the notes that really needed to be accented.

It seems to me that having a good steady rhythm should be the goal of a dance tune. So is there a rule about putting in off-beat accents? I presume it should be done quite sparingly. (I may be a stick in the mud, but I think one of the things I really like about Frankie Kennedy's playing is the kind of unwavering nature of it.)

TIA!
Charlie
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peeplj
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Post by peeplj »

Talasiga, your posts make sense to me. I think we are using different words to hit around some of the same concepts.

Chas, you are right too. :) Playing with a strong steady beat is vital for dance tunes; for most music, really. There are things that can be done off the beat but nothing should ever detract from the beat.

I hope no one took any of my comments wrong--MurphyStout is a fine flute player, and nothing I said was meant to take anything away from the fact that he played a damn fine tune, and played it well.

I could envy him that rock steady beat; he holds a better beat than I do.

--James
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MurphyStout
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Post by MurphyStout »

chas wrote:Your playing sounds great to me, Murph. Might I ask how long you've been playing?
I've been playing now for almost 2 and a half years. Argg so much to still work on!

All this talk has really made me think more of my diaphram support. Kinda a tricky thing to pick up cause it isn't exaclty obvious to me on what I should be doing cause nothing jumps out at me when I listen to other peoples recordings... Oh well, I'll figure it out sooner or later but what is my objective?

Oh, I know... I'll just go read about it in Grey Larson's book..... NOT!
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Post by BoneQuint »

MurphyStout wrote:All this talk has really made me think more of my diaphram support. Kinda a tricky thing to pick up cause it isn't exaclty obvious to me on what I should be doing cause nothing jumps out at me when I listen to other peoples recordings... Oh well, I'll figure it out sooner or later but what is my objective?
I'll jump in here even though I'm an idiot about flute playing and I'm not expert in Irish music, but I've listened to lots of music in many different styles, and I played french horn and other brass instruments for years, so I know a bit about breathing and diaphragm control.

First, even before reading what the others wrote, I had a similar impression -- it sounds like you're trying to make a clean recording with no mistakes, like you're "working" the tune instead of just letting loose and "playing" it. Maybe that's because you were recording yourself, at least partly. I do agree your rhythm control is excellent. And I like the breathy sound.

But the tune needs to dance and swoop and breathe. "Diaphragm support" isn't really the issue I hear...it's more of a lack of "direction" for how to approach the tune. The ability to "hear" accents, dynamics, ornaments, spaces, etc., while you're playing, and "allow" them to naturally come through, as if you were just singing the tune. To make the tune yours, how you'd most want to hear it. Techniques are just tools to allow that, they aren't "the answer" in their own right. Confidently using what techniques you have is FAR more important than having more techniques. So just imagine the tune, or sing it, and try to "feel" where a little PUNCH of air would give the tune a kick...and where a little hesitation or space would allow it to dance...and so forth. Then try to make it happen. This is a very different way of practicing compared to learning tunes or polishing techniques with exercises. This kind of "mastery" is incredibly important when playing with others (especially with only one or two people), so you can respond to what they're doing...for me, that's one of the most fulfilling parts about playing music, when two or three people are listening and responding simultaneously, with confidence, taste, and emotion.

I think that ability is what separates a real musician from a beginner or a dabbler. I know very good musicians who can pull it off even on instruments that they have a limited proficiency with, because it's an issue of taste, restraint, dynamics, and having an intimate understanding of the music, not an issue of technique.

As far as "breath pulsing" and diaphragm control go, I'm not sure what your question is (being an idiot and all). But, to get an accent or "support" a note, I give it a "punch" from my diaphragm, much like you're tensing up your stomach muscles to allow someone to punch you in the stomach without it hurting. You can ramp it up slowly to get a little crescendo, or give it a quick "punch" to get a bouncy accent, on both the on-beats or offbeats. That's what it sounds like to me that a lot of the more dynamic, syncopated flute players (the ones I like) do to get those nice little "swoops" and "barks."
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skh
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Post by skh »

Just curious: are you tonguing or glottal-stopping?

Sonja (not qualified to comment)
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John S
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Post by John S »

Dear Mr Stout.
What ever you've been doing to teaching yourself keep doing it; it's working very well.
Playing with your self is great (Fnarr, Fnarr) but playing with others is even more fun and will expand and deepen your understanding of the music, so find a session (or 7) and get stuck in, with the skills you have you'll be welcomed.
Learning to play music never stops and will keep you occupied until you pop your clogs.
Good luck

John S

PS Sorry I couldn't be more critical
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djm
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Post by djm »

Murph, I've just received the Grey Larson book, so I'm a bit surprised to hear your remark. What should I be aware of before using this book as the basis of my self-teaching? I'll admit I was a bit surprised to find half the examples are done on concertina.

I have lots of flute CDs and the Mad4Trad Flute CD-ROM. Is there some other source you recommend?

Thx,

djm
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Post by glauber »

Very nice. Very impressive, in fact, for 2 years of playing. Keep on, you're doing fine.

It's a tad too nice, though; could use some more mad energy. I think you were worried about getting a good recording. It's almost as if you're playing with a metronome. Think of dancers instead. A jig should be naturally a little unequal: BAAH-du bah-da-bla PAH-da-ba, etc, instead of dit-dit-dit dit-dit-dit

When you switched to the second tune you let go a little bit more, and it sounded a lot more exciting there.
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peeplj
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Post by peeplj »

djm,

I have the Larsen book and think it's a fine resource, although it's sheer size makes it intimidating: the book is huge!

We have a really good bunch of folks here on the boards, and you can learn a lot from listening to them, but they don't provide a substitute for the kind of information you can get in the book.

Also don't forget the Scoiltrad lessons taught by Conal O'Grada. If you live in an area where no teacher is available, these are the next best thing.

--James
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Post by Hoovorff »

James,

What kind of computer equipment is necessary for the Scoiltrad lessons? Specifically, I'm wondering what is necessary in order to make a recording to send to Conal O'Grada for advice, etc. I've read that that's one of the great benefits of Scoiltrad. I'm just not sure if my computer has everything it takes to get the most from these lessons.

Thanks, Jeanie
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Post by TheGrixxly »

If you have a micophone you have everything you need. I'm taking the beginner's flute course and have enjoyed it a lot. It's been very informative and I feel like I'm learning a lot.

Cheers,
Tony
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peeplj
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Post by peeplj »

To view the lessons, you need to be able to play Quicktime movies. Here is the download site for the client:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/qt/

To record the MP3, you need a program that will allow you to record yourself and then save the file as an MP3. Audacity is a good choice, as it's completely free, and easy to use.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net

The Scoiltrad lessons come with a pretty good set of instructions on how to record your lesson.

--James
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Cathy Wilde
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Post by Cathy Wilde »

Great job! And GOOD ON YA for putting something up there! We should all take a lesson from you here; yours truly in particular who is well down the road to you-know-where despite her good intentions. :eek:

It seems like you have a lot of the tone & technique & basic building blocks down just great, impressively well for someone with only 2 years at it. I agree with some of the other folks that from here it's just a matter of making it more musical -- i.e., shaping the tune, giving it a little more verve, lift, etc.

I've found it helpful to try to think of a tune as having a sort of arc to it (maybe an inverted one?); if you focus on beginning-middle-end points this may add a little more life, too.

You might also try picking up the tempo another tick or two -- it felt just below "toe-tapping" if you know what I mean. That will probably tighten up some of your ornamentation, add a little energy, and it could force you to push a bit harder on the beat, too.

I also wondered about the stops/tongued notes. It might be good exercise to take a pass at it 99% slurred, using only your cuts/taps/rolls and pulsing to break things up. You may be surprised at how this can change the whole character of the tune!

Anyway, just some thoughts. But overall, lovely job. Nice tone; as a Hammy player myself I can appreciate the control the flute's upper register can require.

Well, there you go. Have fun, and tear it up!
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Rosemary Lane
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Speed

Post by Rosemary Lane »

<You might also try picking up the tempo another tick or two -- it felt just below "toe-tapping" if you know what I mean.>
Respectfully, this is silly. It isn't at all about the speed.
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