shape of embouchure hole

Myrddin · Post by **Myrddin** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:32 am

Hi there,

my first message here - so hello everybody!

I'm about to order an 8 keyed Ormiston flute and cannot decide which shape I want for the embouchure hole (George told me he'd make any shape I want...). I come from the metal flute and have already found out that the round hole is not what I want - the decision will probably be either the classical oval or the 'boxed oval' or 'rounded rectangle'.

On the one hand I want a flute that's easy to play, on the other hand I don't want it to sound like a concert flute - I've already got one...

Could anyone give me some advice on this?
Thanks a lot!

Michaela

hellbound skunk · Post by **hellbound skunk** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:31 pm

round hole

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:41 pm

The rounded rectangle will be easier to get a sound out of, and louder. The classic oval is a bit more complex, requires a different embouchure hole than on the Boehm flute, and will sound more "Irish."

Myrddin · Post by **Myrddin** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:04 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Jessie, what exactly do you mean when you say 'complex'? Do you think it would be very difficult to adapt to the oval? So far I've only played my concert flute with the boxed oval. When I tried wooden flutes with round embouchures, I found it extremely difficult to focus the air stream, and I'm a bit afraid of ordering a flute that sounds Irish - but that I cannot play. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to try either of the two so far.

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:08 pm

Two things to keep in mind,

You can probably make a round hole into an ellipse, and an ellipse into a box.
The other way around is more difficult.

In my limited experience, a rectangular hole is more difficult to bend the note
than an ellipse hole or a round hole (this may have been differences in the
fifes).

I think that a rectangular hole can be played louder if everything else stays
the same.

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:03 pm

"I.D.10-t" wrote:
Two things to keep in mind,
You can probably make a round hole into an ellipse, and an ellipse into a box. The other way around is more difficult.

The problem with this logic, is that if you change the shape from round to ellipse or square, you increase the area of the embourture and make it larger, which will change the tuning of the flute.
Jon

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:26 pm

Yes, that's right...the more complex tone is harder to get a sound on. Since you are used the the Boehm embouchure, you might do well to get the rounded rectangle.

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:35 pm

I've come to Irish flute playing from a Boehm flute background.
If you get an embouchure cut that is similar to a Boehm flute's embouchure cut it will make switching between the flutes somewhat easier, but the sound will be more open and less, I don't know, wooden sounding.
Or, you could go with a more oval shape (which isn't really that hard to play--it just requires a different embouchure than the Boehm flute), which will help to give the classic wood flute sound. (Oval is easier to play than round, I think.)
Micah

Michel · Post by **Michel** » Wed May 19, 2004 4:36 pm

if you are serious abt playing the boehm flute probably a modern type
of embouchoure would suit you better (switching from a flute to another would be easier).
the classic oval blow hole needs a slighty different embouchoure, but is
the better choice in my opinion if you are seriously interested in learning irish traditional music.
but I don't know G.Ormiston flutes!
were do you live? there is also a very good flute maker in Basel,Tom Aebi.

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Wed May 19, 2004 5:35 pm

[/quote]The problem with this logic, is that if you change the shape from round to ellipse or square, you increase the area of the embourture and make it larger, which will change the tuning of the flute.
Jon[quote]
Thank you
Czad

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Wed May 19, 2004 6:29 pm

I'm somewhat beginner here, but I came from Irish wooden flute and started with Boehm a while ago and my experience is that if you are a fluter and you play one flute on a high level and you decide to go try the other, you have to ask yourself what you want to gain here. Why do you want to play the simple system wood? Probably because you want the more "Irish" sound. Go with the one that you feel have the potential to sound like you want it to sound. You will probably want a round or oval, and what you do is you learn to play it. My wood flute and my boehm sertainly takes different embouchures but I can play them both.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed May 19, 2004 6:43 pm

I prefer the oval. I found I got more tonal variety out of it.

hellbound skunk · Post by **hellbound skunk** » Wed May 19, 2004 6:49 pm

if you want to sound good, get a round/oval hole. If it's "easy" you're after, then get the boxed off oval. But if you are serious about playing the flute irish style, then you will get a flute with a round hole and re-learn your embouchoure. Otherwise you will just have an interesting looking keyless Boehm flute.

rama · Post by **rama** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:13 pm

if i were you, i'd get something different (a little tighter and ovalish), paradoxically, not only will it be more authentic for the irish sound but it will improve your embouchure for the metal flute too! plus you will appreciate differences (as very well there should be) and enjoy each flute more as result. it's always better to have flexibility (ability to adapt). it develops more control in the muscles involved in forming the embouchure for whichever embouchure hole you encounter in your travels. fear not the differences. it's a bonus.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:37 pm

Disclaimer: I'm primarily a Boehm player.

I'd also recommend an oval embouchure hole. The rectangular holes play very easily, but can take away some of your ability to mold and shape the note as you see fit. I prefer having a headjoint that lets me make the sound, rather than one that demands that I play a certain way.

Dana

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