Fluters Vs Fiddlers

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:03 am

djm wrote:I don't care for Lunasa, I'm afraid, and am not concerned too much with their opinions.

In fairness, I think that there is much more for Kevin Crawford than Lunasa. I listened to In Good Company again recently and while there are some tracks I don't care for, thera ere some absolutely brilliant bits.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:18 am

Lunasa really has to be experienced live. Their recordings are pale impressions of what they can do in a live show.

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:31 pm

I wouldn't post this, except I learned it in Grade 9 music (ie it is extremely simple history anyone can know):

Back in the Day (Baroque period of so called "classical" music) most (actually all, but whatever, I am being cautious) instruments were incapable (or almost incapable) of producing anything in the way of dynamics. This led to something called tiered dynamics in Baroque music (ie, p was 1-2 people, mp was 3ish, mf 4ish, f was 5+ etc although the numbers might be wrong).

So lack of dynamics most likely comes from this...

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:40 pm

Steampacket wrote:.........but I don't think you can beat the uilleann pipes or flute for passionate playing. Airs for example sound best to my ears on pipes or flute. On the fiddle there's something lacking I find. Not many fiddlers can do justice to airs.

Hear here
Yea and yea
What is an air without wind?

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:28 pm

NicoMoreno wrote:So lack of dynamics most likely comes from this...

Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

(What I learned in 9th grade.)

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:31 pm

Bloomfield wrote:
NicoMoreno wrote:So lack of dynamics most likely comes from this...
Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

(What I learned in 9th grade.)

Bloody elitist yob. We don't care about yer damn proctologist, or whatever the *bleep* it is you're making unctuous noises about.

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:00 pm

Proctology aside (or is that easy over?) the lack of dynamics in UPs is a physical constraint (all bagpipes share this limitation), and has nothing to do with how Baroque you are. They are either on or off. There is no choice as to how loud or soft they are played at any given point in a tune.

For instance, I just bought my first flute (Casey Burns) and my second set of UPs (Joe Kennedy) and I am now so Baroque I couldn't get a greased BB out of my ... er ... anyways, it is a physical constraint.

djm

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:54 am

NicoMoreno wrote:Back in the Day (Baroque period of so called "classical" music) most (actually all, but whatever, I am being cautious) instruments were incapable (or almost incapable) of producing anything in the way of dynamics. This led to something called tiered dynamics in Baroque music (ie, p was 1-2 people, mp was 3ish, mf 4ish, f was 5+ etc although the numbers might be wrong).

And this is why no one plays Stradivarius violins (produced right in the heart of the Baroque period) today, because they are incapable of producing anything in the way of dynamics?

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:06 am

colomon wrote:
NicoMoreno wrote:Back in the Day (Baroque period of so called "classical" music) most (actually all, but whatever, I am being cautious) instruments were incapable (or almost incapable) of producing anything in the way of dynamics. This led to something called tiered dynamics in Baroque music (ie, p was 1-2 people, mp was 3ish, mf 4ish, f was 5+ etc although the numbers might be wrong).
And this is why no one plays Stradivarius violins (produced right in the heart of the Baroque period) today, because they are incapable of producing anything in the way of dynamics?

I don't think any of the Stradivarius violins remain in their original set up. They've had their neck angles adjusted to give more volume, to suit the needs of larger concert halls etc. A Strad today is not the same instrument it was when it was new.

Of course a baroque set up violin can stillproduce more dynamic contract than any flute.

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Mon May 17, 2004 3:11 pm

Well, yes, but the point (and it is a valid one) is that most instruments in the baroque period had "physical constraints" that limited their ability to produce dynamics. (djm, you were arguing with something I didn't say)

If I remember correctly, violin bows changed...

Flutes weren't able to produce pronounced dynamic changes either.

But the best two examples I can come up with are the bagpipes and harpsichord, both of which still exist today, without dynamic changes available. A reasonable example of one instrument that has changed is the oboe.

Of course, the bagpipe are older than that (Baroque period), but the whole point of my original post wasn't to say the it was the style that influenced the lack of dynamics, but rather to point out that lack of dynamics stemmed from that time period, or earlier, and it wasn't until after that that instrument makers started to produce instruments with a more marked ability to produce dynamic changes.

That's it.

(Thanks Tcolomon for that wonderful commentary... until this day, I was under the impression that Strad. violins WERE played today... Well, you live and learn I suppose... unless you stop listening...) edited to change name of person who said that... I was not entirely paying attention: apologies to talasiga

feadog39 · Post by **feadog39** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:59 pm

i'm inclined to tentatively agree with a comment made by john skelton a while back, which was to the effect that the art and science of playing the irish flute in the traditional style is still relatively young. i think there are still chapters to be written in the evolution of traditional irish flute playing. whether or not the flute can ever reach the expressive capababilities of the fiddle perhaps still remains to be seen. but clearly the gap can be narrowed at least in one respect to the extent that flute players become better at playing the variety of high quality keyed flutes that are out there nowadays.

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon May 17, 2004 7:59 pm

Nico wrote:djm, you were arguing with something I didn't say

Nico, relax. Just winding you up a bit.

djm

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Tue May 18, 2004 8:53 am

NicoMoreno wrote:.......
(Thanks Talasiga for that wonderful commentary... until this day, I was under the impression that Strad. violins WERE played today... Well, you live and learn I suppose... unless you stop listening...)

I fully wonder what comment I made about Strad. violins.
Did I make it while I wasn't listening to myself?

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:30 am

feadog39 wrote:i'm inclined to tentatively agree with a comment made by john skelton a while back, which was to the effect that the art and science of playing the irish flute in the traditional style is still relatively young. i think there are still chapters to be written in the evolution of traditional irish flute playing.

Righto, the concertina is the same way. Since Noel Hill, people have just been doing so many new things with it now, and this is a very recent development. Not to belittle what has been done before, but specific performers have made quantum leaps in how the instrument is played.

Originally being a french horn player, I call this the "Dennis Brain" effect.

Caj

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Tue May 18, 2004 3:14 pm

djm wrote:
Nico wrote:djm, you were arguing with something I didn't say
Nico, relax. Just winding you up a bit.

djm

Well that was extremely unapparent...

Oh well...

I would just like to say as well, that I did not intend my original post to come off quite as it did. I simply meant to say that my point was one that should be easily verified! (as I had understood it to be fairly well-established/basic.)