Reedmaking: Cursed Back D

[kb]

Greetings all!

I've been looking at this site for about a month now and appreciate the lively discussions. Maybe I can get some help with this one!

For the last few years I have been taking my hand at reedmaking. For so long I had sinking and variable pitch back d; Finally have stabilized that by the scrape, but now get flat back d (C# becomes a sharp Cn too).

Much of the literature says chop down the reed head. I have chopped and chopped and chopped with very little effect. The problem is definitely with the reed as a 'good' reed from another chanter plays in the chanter I am trying to reed and the 'flat back d' reeds are consistently flat in other chanters...

Wondering if anybody has some thoughts on this one, i.e., staple eye opening, head width, cane hardness, bridle secrets, etc.

Thanks, --kb

[mconners]

Just took a look at Seth Gallagher's www site and...

for a flat back D he suggests chopping the reed length down a bit, which you've already done.

I would keep chopping.

His second suggestion is to insert a rush in the chanter below back D to flatten the rest of the notes below back D.

I have made reeds that were real good in most respects other than ... that one thing (weak E, no bottom D, etc.). They grow more cane, keep on trying.

One thing I remember from either Hegarty's or Quinn's book is that the reed lips should have a bit of a square on them, should not be an edge. When I did that I found my D's would not sink and had a nice crisp sound to them.

All the best.

[djm]

One thing I remember from either Hegarty's or Quinn's book is that the reed lips should have a bit of a square on them, should not be an edge.

I think you mean that the side edges (rails) should not be too thin. They should be strong enough to support an arch in the reed. If the sides come to too thin an edge you will see the eye of the reed start to collapse inwards near the corners.

djm

[AlanB]

Kb,

Don't go mad with the knife!! Chopping back is just the sign of a badly designed reed, you'll end up with a solid back D alright, but a reed that plays in F and sounds like sh*t and takes too much effort.

The main factors I know that produce a breaking back D is the overscraping of the 'heart' of the reed (the middle really), too thin a slip in the first place, too thin a tail and poor tying on to staple (shifting blades and leaks etc.,) Try closing down the eye of the staple a bit (this I think will include the narrowing of the staple flare generally). Actually, try closing the staple eye by degrees until it is shut completely, you will find the Back D improves immensely and the rest goes to buggery, but there's a sort of lesson learnt in it. A secondary gouge in the tails as a staple 'bed' helps as you don't need to scrape a reed so heavily about the lips. But be careful, too far over or not near enough will not produce the results................

Often, If I have a slight croak coming on a reed, I reinsert the staple a little further, this sets more tension and improves the stability. etc., etc.,

Oh, and try a narrower head? Though you might get a narrower 2nd 8ve and a flatter back D. Though these changes can have an unwanted effect on the rest of the intonation/tuning etc., it's a sort of cross reference of adjustment. It makes you mad, but you'll get there eventually.

If none of that makes any improvement, it's tape, putty, a saw and a box of swan vestas.

Alan

[Tony]

[Joseph E. Smith]

Thanks Tony, I was wondering.....

[kb]

Thanks Tony, I haven't thought about matches for the final adjustment.; been using purely mechanical means...

--kb

[mconners]

One thing I remember from either Hegarty's or Quinn's book is that the reed lips should have a bit of a square on them, should not be an edge.

I think you mean that the side edges (rails) should not be too thin. They should be strong enough to support an arch in the reed. If the sides come to too thin an edge you will see the eye of the reed start to collapse inwards near the corners.

djm

Nope.

Talking about the lips. What you say about the sides is correct but not what I am talking about.

The lips should be thick enough to have a slight flatness at the end, not a knife-like edge on each blade.

I will find the exact text and post it.

[kb]

On the variable-pitch on the back D - you guys are exactly correct. Previously I was getting the lips and upper area of the reed too thin. Back D would come in tune with a given pressure. Apply a little more it would sink. Making the lips a little more robust as Michael points out took care of that.

Scraping the sides of the lips is also a balancing act - getting a good taper helps, too much and crack.

Now to the flat back D -- I know a proven reed works, so I would like to pursue without rushing. I measured how much I've chopped on the last reed and I'm getting to about 1/4", so I think I will stop there...

From what I'm hearing, here are some things I am going to try:
-narrower head (the reed that works is .485", mine are around .510"
-smaller staple eye opening (I am using ~.065" opening on inside dimension, too much?)
-scrape groove in tails to accommodate staple body

Any other thoughts on sanding cylinder diameter (I use 2.50"). The reed that works is from Charles Roberts for his chanter - does anyone have dimensions using a Seth Gallagher type method (I have Evertjan d'Hart's method and dimensions, but with the tone chamber maybe results in different overall dimension?).

This is a slow process for me, so about 6 months worth of work is ahead...

Thanks for the comments!

--kb

[Brian Lee]

Interesting on the head width. I started out on my reeds with a head between 0.50 and 0.48 in width and found that while the reeds played a touch quieter (which is a big thing I was going for) and my back D was stable, I couldn't get a solid hard D to save me. So I went back to a slightly thicker head width - between 0.52 and 0.54 and I've had a bit more luck with the hard D.

My reeds don't have overly thick lips but they aren't razor sharp either, as best I can guess, I'd say they average roughly 0.010 thick. I've gone both thicker and thinner but have found that if I go any thicker, I get a pretty dull sound and much thinner and the lips close up with any changes in pressure.

I just got a new chanter yesterday and am waiting to get some tubing so I can make a few more staples and have a go at it. With luck I won't have too many issues on this one!

Bri~