A sincere question about piping and pipers

maw · Post by **maw** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:48 am

[quote="DaleWisely

What I'm responding to, however, is a scenario something like the following analogy.

Let's say I make $4000 widgets for a living. For 10 years I have uniformly happy customers. Then I have an unhappy customer. Could be I screwed up. Could be the customer was unreasonable. In any case, the customer is mad. The customer goes on the widget forum and airs his case. The 10 years worth of happy customers are too busy being contented and using their Wisely Widgets to bother to post re: their happiness with said widgetry. I get wind of the critical post from a friend. Perhaps I have to borrow someone's computer, locate the forum, register, and post a response. Perhaps the response ends up being a who-ya-gonna-believe deal. Maybe the customer is so mad that he forgets to mention some ways that maybe he has contributed to the misunderstanding. Maybe.

Dale[/quote]

Who's to say the first widget maker hasn't had any other unhappy customers, that have either kept quiet for whatever reason over the 10 years, or don't even know of any forums where they can air their views.
You know the old saying of an old driver who's been driving for forty years and never had an accident, but he's seen a few in his rearview mirror!!! And maybe, with the case in question, maker x didn't need to borrow a computer, as it seems he's already made lot's of postings on said site - stating his obvious superior knowledge in the pipemaking industry

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:51 am

<--- It's a very nice extravagance alright, Kevin.

What do you reckon 'valve piercer X', could we do some sort of 'name the maker' competition?

What'll we say, full set in D for the first correct answer?

In hope,

Harry.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:39 am

It looks like an elaborate musical yoyo to me, not just any yoyo!

Kevin Popejoy · Post by **Kevin Popejoy** » Wed May 05, 2004 11:53 am

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:11 pm

Harry wrote:<--- It's a very nice extravagance alright, Kevin.

What do you reckon 'valve piercer X', could we do some sort of 'name the maker' competition?

What'll we say, full set in D for the first correct answer?

In hope,

Harry.

Sir Sir Sir Sir, I know I know I know....

I can only reveal the name by invitation though

PD.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:17 pm

Oh boy! Swirlly things! Harry, do you have a bigger picture available somewhere? I'd like to get a closer look (can't help myself - year of the monkey and all that).

djm

Post by **Dale** » Thu May 06, 2004 9:20 pm

Jim McGuire wrote:Need any more help with understanding the difference between whistle players and pipers?

No, I don't think so. But, thanks.

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Thu May 06, 2004 9:48 pm

I understand.

Hey everyone, there's a riveting thread on 'dropped whistles' over on the other forum.

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:14 am

I think that hearing about problems with makers is as essential to the whole business of pipemaking as hearing good reviews. I have seen many more glowing reccommendadtions here than I have read about serious complaints. All of this has been very useful in developing some sort of knowledge base about the instrument and the industry, here where word-of-mouth is not an option. Perhaps there should be a "Gripes" forum somewhere, where with each post is issued a large grain of salt.

Pipeman · Post by **Pipeman** » Sun May 16, 2004 8:01 am

Just my penny worth, but seems since we got rid of at least one charlatan pipemaker all the nonsense has stopped.

Just my honest observation!

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:32 am

Pipeman wrote:Just my penny worth, but seems since we got rid of at least one charlatan pipemaker all the nonsense has stopped.

Just my honest observation!

I don't think we got rid of anyone.The moderator

went snip snip with the scissors.
Slan go foill
Liam

elbogo · Post by **elbogo** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:39 am

I said it once, and someone else just recently brought up the same thing regarding the disgruntled "victim of a supposedly unscrupulous pipe-maker" and how we never really hear the other side, and what an impatient, overbearing, tactless, rude, nasty, and downright spiteful ass the "victim" just possibly could have been.

mconners · Post by **mconners** » Sun May 16, 2004 12:31 pm

elbogo wrote:I said it once, and someone else just recently brought up the same thing regarding the disgruntled "victim of a supposedly unscrupulous pipe-maker" and how we never really hear the other side, and what an impatient, overbearing, tactless, rude, nasty, and downright spiteful ass the "victim" just possibly could have been.

There usually are two sides to every story...

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:28 pm

Rick wrote:Like was said, a set of pipes cost a lot of money so when you order one, pay it and you don't get it i can see that you get angry.
Posting about it here is ok imho so everyone knows how pipemaker so and so deals with his customers.

The other way around is also quite possible as i just heared.
My pipemaker now has a full set in B ready and notified the customer (someone posting here and with quite a big mouth about how hard pipemakers have it) who then happilly cancelled the order!!??
And no downpayment because my pipemaker doesn't ask those.

Shouldn't he now let other pipemakers know about this person??
Should he demand a % of the set price?

There's a lot of stuff going on in pipers/pipemakers land that is imho NOT DONE and i think it's fine to openly state that.

He he he. Oddly enough in the thread some months ago dealing with this issue of how unjust it is for pipe makers to expect or demand or accept deposits, you make a great point about how suspicious this was and I think came pretty close to calling all those who engage in this "dubious" practice according to your numerous explanations, bent, criminal, dishonest, or exploitive.

Those who know me can assure you that I'm not the type just to sit back and wait for the moment when those sorts of claims come 'round and bite you in your own arse and then gloat and say, "I told you so." That would be petty and mean, which, as I say aren't character traits I've ever found in myself.

But to refresh you concerning my own heatedly contested (by yourself) comments on the matter, the pipe maker you now champion did not take a deposit, he has no "earnest" money, and there is no clearly implied contract for any specific amount. This maker is out nothing in any legal sense, and has no way to prove in any court in any country I believe, that this customer had even a verbal agreement with him, assuming verbal contracts in your country are valid for more than a few hundred dollars as they are limited to here in the US.

In summary, had your maker taken a deposit, this customer could go his way as he wants, and your pipe maker is money ahead, and whether for honor or insult, this customer has learned that there is a price to be paid for backing out of an agreement. Since there is no deposit, the suggestion that this maker attempt to recover some sort of compensation is laughable. I personally believe the maker has some compensation coming, but just let him try to get it. With hope, some other customer will want this odd pitch and he won't have to wait long to sell it.

Some people have to learn the hard way.

But that's what deposits are for.

Royce