My surprising thoughts on the Casey Burns Folk Flute

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:21 am

No, not curled flutes. It's also called fiddleback boxwood (I think Casey came up with both of the terms in relation to boxwood, but they are common terms for maple). It is wood that exhibits a beautiful texture, and as you move it in the sun, different spots light up. It's beautiful in appearance. It's very rare in boxwood and there is a premium (an extra charge) for it.

TheGrixxly · Post by **TheGrixxly** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:16 pm

JessieK wrote:
TheGrixxly wrote:Jessie,

I'd be interested in hearing more, if you wouldn't mind.
Sure. What do you want to hear? I have been playing this flute exclusively since I got it. It FEELS good to play. I am going to order a curly boxwood all-wood 5-key flute from Casey. I just have to decide which model to go with.

Well, I think I'd like to hear anything you can think of!

Since you have a great deal more experience than I do, I'm sure you noticed or will notice things that I would easily overlook...

Something I am curious about, you had mentioned earlier that your Olwell's play themselves (I've heard that a lot, I need one of those!); but I'm guessing you're not saying that the Burns is a 'chore' to play. Can you explain that a little? Maybe it's the resistance you feel playing the Burns, that isn't there with the Olwell (not that, that is good or bad)? The reason I ask is that my Hammy is pretty easy to play but I don't feel that resistance with it that I did with my Burns. I don't think I knew what to call it then... But in the same breath the Hammy can take all the air you want to shove down it. Course I let the Burns go too soon, but I recall that it could take a lot of air too, if you really wanted to 'lean' into it.

I'd just like to hear about stuff like that, if I was at all clear.

Cheers,
Tony

tin tin · Post by **tin tin** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:30 pm

I wouldn't describe playing a Burns flute as a "chore." I had (until last week) an ergonomic standard model in mopane, and it was (is) a very rich-sounding, woody, forgiving instrument to play. However, because of the thick walls (and maybe chimney depth), there is, as Jessie mentions, a certain resistance--something to push against. I now have a 6-key Copley-Boegli (also in mopane), and it's quite a different instrument to play. Having only had it for a few days, I'm still in the early stages of getting to know the flute, but it seems to me that it is somewhat less inherently resistant than the Burns, requiring the player to create some of the resistance with his/her embouchure. (Maybe. I'm not finding myself to be as eloquent on this subject as I had thought I would be when I hit the reply button.)
I should also add that while the Copley-Boegli is brilliant and precisely what I've been wanting, it has given me, if anything, a deeper appreciation for the Burns. The Burns is somehow different from other simple-system flutes I've played, but Casey definitely makes some great and enjoyable instruments. As Jessie mentioned in her original post, the cross-fingered C natural is spot on, both tonally and pitch-wise. Also, I found the all-wood flute to be quite robust and easy to care for.
Micah

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:31 pm

Hmm...yes, your guesses are correct (for me, anyway). The Olwell can take lots of air and honk or take tight embouchure and sound pure-ish, but the Burns flute is different. With the right embouchure, it just responds more, as if the player is a bigger part of the equation than on an Olwell. It isn't a chore to play. I have an analogy. Imagine two people facing each other, leaning toward each other with their hands held up flat against each other's hands, so each supports the other. If one lets go, the other will fall. If one pushes too hard, they will both fall. There is a symbiotic relationship. That's what it feels like when I play this flute. It is still surprising, given the price and "low-end" nature of it, but is true. I enjoy it more than other flutes. It likes me.

(Bear in mind that I am not crazy, but I haven't slept much lately, so that might explain some of my language...I don't actually believe that the flute likes me any more than it likes lemonade, and having never tried lemonade, I don't suppose it knows if it likes that.)

bruceb · Post by **bruceb** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:55 pm

I just played around with my CB Folk Flute and blackwood McGee Rudall Perfected with rounded rectangle embouchure. Both are great flutes, but very different in tone and feel.

The McGee sounds more reedy, the CB more pure, and it's an obvious difference when playing one after the other. Both sound great, they really sing out when you push them. I think the CB actually has a slightly stronger low D, a surprise. The intonation of both is excellent. Like others have said the cross fingered C natural on the CB is amazing, it's just as strong and pure as the notes around it. This is a real strength of the McGee too, but maybe the CB is just a little better. I'm not really sure which flute I prefer, which is saying a lot about the CB as it costs about 20% as much. If you prefer a more traditional reedy tone the McGee is the winner, but I personally like the CB's tone every bit as much, maybe even slightly more at the moment. That could change next week, who knows? The volume isn't that different to my ear, but that's not something I care much about.

The McGee is easier to play in terms of tone, the CB has smaller holes slightly closer together, so on the CB it's easier to cover the holes(more a theoretical then real difference for me). The CB takes more work to play the upper octave. You have to really support the notes with a good focused airstream or it sometimes wants to drop down an octave. I also find it somewhat hard on some notes to play the lower octave and flip them up to the upper octave with just my lip. On the McGee it's effortless to flip all the notes from the lower to the upper octave. Like Jessie said about her Olwell, the McGee almost plays itself. The lower octave is just as easy, but I do work harder to play the second octave on the CB. This might change as I get used to the CB and it breaks in as I'm much more used to playing the McGee.

bruce boysen

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:39 pm

Here's something I find interesting (interesting that no one has mentioned it so far): The CB folk flute I heard sounded radically different, in terms of tone, from an Olwell. The Olwell was, well, an Olwell - Very focused and with a bias towards the middle and high frequecies, whereas the CB flute was very dark and mellow sounding.

Keep in mind this is from the perspective of the listener (me) hearing these flutes played one right after the other, from a distance of about 10 feet, unamplified. The player was John Skelton, so no need to worry that the player couldn't adjust, especially since both were his personal instruments.

I liked the sound of both flutes, but seriously - never have I heard two more different sounding flutes played back to back, and I've had the chance to compare more than a few.

Anyone else feel the tone of the CB folk flute is unusually......unusual? (not a bad thing)

Loren

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:14 pm

I like the folk flute fine but I don't see it as in the
class of the best flutes, costing a lot more; nor
do I consider it as good as CBs middle range
flutes. I find it very likeable, remarkable for what it is, and
I'm surprised that people like it SO well. Best

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:47 am

I think it's a good first flute for people who don't like plastic. And even so, it's cheaper than the better plastic flutes. For what i've seen, CB flutes are consistently good, which is also a good thing for a beginner's flute. He himself says in his Web site that it's not as good as his professional flutes. I think if you already have a good flute and are already on your way to becoming Matt Molloy or Chris Norman, it may not be worth buying one of these. (But keep in mind i'm a "one flute" kind of person -- get you know your axe and play it well. Other people thrive on having different flutes with different strengths.)

The good thing about an entry level flute that plays well is that it allows people to get their feet wet and decide if they really want to play flute, before they spend a lot of money. Flute is fun but it's also a lot of work.

bruceb · Post by **bruceb** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:44 am

Loren,
I haven't heard anyone else play the CB Folk Flute, but when playing it I wouldn't describe the tone as dark. I also feel that Jessie & I did make it clear that the tone is different from most high end, large holed flutes.

I do feel it is in the same class as the high end flutes. It has it's strengths and weaknesses, like all flutes. Maybe you have to read between the lines a bit, but I did mention several areas where I felt my McGee was better. If you want a really reedy tone the CB FF isn't the best choice. No tuning slide might be a major problem for some people too. I mentioned others.

Glauber,
It doesn't say anywhere on Casey's site that the FF isn't as good a player as his professional models, at least not that I can find. In terms of playability, here is a quote from the site.

"Acoustically, the Folk Flute is a professional flute with no compromise made in materials or voicing - it can speak as well as a professional flute!"

He does say that it's not a substitute for a professional flute. I agree with you that if you have a high end flute it may not be worth buying one. If you're happy with what you have there is no "need" to get *any* other flute. I'd also say that if you have a CB FF there would be no reason to replace it with a high end flute until you become an advanced player. For an advanced player subtle differences are a perfectly good reason to get a different flute. I do think it's even reasonable that an advanced player might still prefer the CB FF. Maybe not likely, but possible as I don't feel there is any great dropoff from a high end flute to the CB FF.
bruce boysen

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:45 am

Indeed, and another good thing about the CBs folk flutes:
if you start with one and decide flute playing isn't
for you, you can sell it and get back your money,
especially after this thread. Best

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:16 am

bruceb wrote:Glauber,
It doesn't say anywhere on Casey's site that the FF isn't as good a player as his professional models, at least not that I can find.

I can't find it either. I think it went away when he edited the "folk flute" page to put up Grey Larsen's recording.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:46 am

Well, I should add the (implied) disclaimer: I reviewed ONE flute, the one I have. I'm sure there is variation between them. I like it better than the high end CB flutes I played at Lark in the Morning. Could be a fluke. I sure hope not.

Yes, it sounds different from an Olwell. It feels different from an Olwell. It is mellower than an Olwell, but it does have purity in the middle and upper range. It is not all that reedy (I mean not reedy like an Olwell), though it can attain good volume and some reediness if you push it.

It just feels good to play. The one I have, I mean.

I don't find McGees easy to play. I find the low end on them weak, or more difficult to play than other flutes.

seisflutes · Post by **seisflutes** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:06 am

Well,I have a CB standard(which I love),and on Saturday I was in Lovingston,VA for this concert/session thing,and Patrick Olwell

was there!
He let me try out one of his flutes

,and he tried out my CB! He also looked at it very closely,peering at the holes and down the bore,pulling apart the tuning slide,etc.
Anyway,the Olwell did feel very different from my Burns.It did almost play itself!
Patrick Olwell said my CB was better than other CBs he's played,so I guess there is variation.It sounded great when he played it.
I'm not sure this has much to do with this topic,but I just had to tell about it!
-Kelly

toddyboy50 · Post by **toddyboy50** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:22 am

Jessie and others.... since I've played both the 3 piece dixon and bamboo Olwell, I'd still love to hear how the CB folk compares to playing these... does the upper octave really require unusual breath support to flip/maintain? This really is sounding like a great flute for the money! Thanks - :roll:

Tod

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:33 am

It is in a different league than the Dixon or bamboo Olwell. For me, the top octave is effortless and smooth.