4,000 year old pipes discovered

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:01 am

Reprinted from Yahoo news:

World's "oldest" wooden musical instruments pipe a tune in Ireland

DUBLIN (AFP) - Archaeologists are dancing with delight after discovering a set of musical pipes believed to have been used 4,000 years ago by pre-historic man in Ireland -- likely making them the world's oldest wooden instruments according to experts.
"It is brilliant, absolutely fantastic," Bernice Molloy, site director for the Dublin-based archaeological consultancy Margaret Gowen, said of the discovery.

Archaeologists discovered the six wooden pipes, which are not joined, during excavations of a site for a housing development near the coastal town of Greystones, south of Dublin.

"It is an amazing find. They had been preserved because they were in the lower part of the site which was damper," Molloy said.
Experts have been able to play a series of notes, including E flat, A flat and F natural, on the yew-wood pipes that were discovered in the bottom of a wood-lined trough.

The archaeological team had been excavating a burnt mound that is believed to have been a cooking site when it came across the trough.

A wooden peg used in the construction of the trough has been radio-carbon dated to between 2,120 BC and 2,085 BC -- the Early Bronze Age period.

Molloy said the hollow pipes, measuring between 30 centimetres and 50 centimetres (12 and 20 inches) long are tapered at one end but have no perforations or finger holes.

"I have so far been unable to find any older wooden instrument," said Margaret Gowen, who owns the consultancy that made the discovery.

"It appears to be 1,000 years older than anything I can find on record, certainly in Europe. There is a suggestion of an early Chinese composite instrument like pan pipes with a gourd that is the wind chamber going back to about 1500 BC, but that is an illustration rather than the instrument," she said.

Gowen added that a 2,000 year-old sophisticated wooden pipe organ, dating from Roman times, had been discovered in Hungary.

"In our case it is one of those accidents of survival and a wonderful one at that. It is going to excite quite a lot of interest," she said of the latest pipe-find.

A number of pre-historic musical instruments made from bone, including simple flutes and whistles dating back more than 100,000 years, have already been uncovered in Ireland.

here's the link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 0510060046

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:09 am

Just a few more details from papers over here:

There are six pipes pitched between the E flat in one octave and E flat in an upper octave.

They are not a reed instrument. The pipes have fipples which produce the tone which were opened and closed by simple valves.

It is suspected that the pipes did connect into a common air supply bag.

There is not yet evidence of the method used to supply air to a bag if there was one.

Regards,

Harry.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:49 am

EXCAVATION SITE

A few days ago, Michael Dooley sent a couple emails out describing these pipes. Here's part of what he relayed:

The museum in Dublin announced last night that the remains of a musical instrument were found at Charlesland Co. Wicklow yesterday. The remains mainly consist of six wooden pipes. The site has been dated to 2,000 BC but the instrument parts will have to be carbon dated to confirm they belong to the same era...

All six bore diameters are similar. There is evidence that the six pieces were set in a frame and that each piece had a flap (or valve) covering a fipple (not reed) and each piece could be sounded by pressing on a flap mechanism. The tapered ends were tied into a bag which could have been bellows blown. The shortest and longest pieces sound the note D# an octave apart. The set were carefully laid out in a wooden trough which is carbon dated now to 2,085bc to 2,120bc....

Regards
Michael Dooley

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:14 am

Looks like some kind of calliope or organ, then?

kevin m. · Post by **kevin m.** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:39 am

So does this mean that they had Eb sessions 4000 years ago?

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:44 am

Wooly Mammoth Mounts maybe??Nothing new then

Slan Go Foill
Liam

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:52 pm

Was the entire scale in the major key, then?

Seems there is indeed nothing new under the sun.

Cheers,
Calum

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:09 pm

There's a news clip here >> RTE of an interview with Bernice Molloy, site director for the Dublin-based archaeological consultancy Margaret Gowen.

I'm guessing that the pipes may have been tuned to a pentatonic scale, or something, since there's six pipes and two are octaves.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Wed May 12, 2004 2:15 am

Harry wrote:Just a few more details from papers over here:

They are not a reed instrument. The pipes have fipples which produce the tone which were opened and closed by simple valves.

So we've gone through 4 000 years of reed hell when the solution lay under our very feet.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Wed May 12, 2004 11:25 am

Given that the high and low notes are an octave, it would appear to be a given that it's a pentatonic of some sort

Just curious, as it is an issue of some debate amongst musicologists as to whether or not the western diatonic scale plays any kind of fundamental role in all musical systems (I tend to think it does, for what my opinions worth (remember youi're getting it for free)).

Cheers,
Calum

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Tue May 18, 2004 6:58 pm

I find it interesting (don't you?) that these pipes were found in and around a site that was meant for burning things. Do you think they found any bodhran parts there too?