variety is the spice

[Whistlepeg]

Looking at the Dervish thread, I got to thinking that musical taste is a very personal and variable thing. What makes some people like one thing and others like another, and is it possibly for one person to like a variety of different but related things? Personally, I enjoy and respect Dervish for their musicianship, creativity and musical passion. But I must admit that I am not a fan of Solas (although I did like their first CD) I also love the old Trad recordings, again for their musicianship and passion.
I often see people staunchly putting down various Irish bands/musicans and supporting others - Anyone else out there willing to admit to having eclectic tastes in Traditional Irish music - and please lets not get into a fight over what is TraditionaL/Irish/Music!

[fancypiper]

I occasionally put on the Moore/Lee album, "The Bee's Knees" and Davy Spillaine's "Atlantic Bridge". Then, I want to listen either to real jazz or ITM......

[djm]

The thing I object to most is when ITM is mixed with the most trite versions of other types of music, e.g. if I listen to jazz I want to hear real jazz, not some hackneyed grocery store muzak with some pseudo-ITM glossed over the top, or buried in the mix. What really turns me off is when ITM is mixed with the most maudlin types of an "easy listening" version of modern folk-rock.

Other than that, I listen to many styles of music, and like everyone else, I have my personal favourites in different genres. I don't object to people experimenting with cross-overs, but just because you can doesn't mean its worth listening to. If you want to try different mixes I'd say go for it, but if it isn't working well, don't publish it until you've hit on something really worth while.

djm

[TonyHiggins]

I'm a fan of Nightnoise, two of whose members were in the Bothy Band- Triona and Micheal (forget spelling their last name- sounds like O'Donnell). Nightnoise has the vaguest flavor of Irish roots, but is definitely more towards jazz or something. Some nice whistle playing on the cd's, by the way.

Aine Minogue is an Irish harpist w/ a bent toward New Age. Does a wonderful rendition of O'Carolan's Mr O'Connor on harp and cello. Nice slow songs sung in Irish, including Eanach Chuin. Much farther toward trad than, say, Loreena McKennitt, whom I also enjoy. (And a much more accomplished harpist, as well.)

I've recommended a number of Green Linnett compilations on the board in the past (before I heard about their fleecing the artists). They have titles like 'Ireland's Most Beautiful Airs.' Sappy? There are some real jewels on those cd's.

And yes, I love Lunasa and like Dervish fairly well. Laurence Nugent, by the way, has some electric bass on Windy Gap. I love the sound of bouzouki. And I really like the aforementioned Micheal's guitar accompaniment of Kevin Burke.

Something I really didn't like I saw on tv once: Some grunge/punk style band from Ireland playing jigs and reels, etc. Couldn't deal with that.
Tony

[Wombat]

I like loads of stuff that's not pure drop but that doesn't diminish the love of stuff that is pure drop one bit. And I like loads of different styles.

Stuff that's watered down or just tacked on for the sake of fashion can be very annoying. But often a band or artist obviously have a mix of influences and their music comes out as an organic whole. One example of a recent album that is eclectic but has an organic unity is John Doyle's solo album. He's obviously influenced a lot by the British earthy/socialist folk singers—Dick Gaughan, Martin Carthy—and by virtuoso guitarists like Bert Jansch. It really does it for me.

Often with popular African artists like Baaba Maal, I wish they'd release their African records rather than their more world-beat offerings although if they are good enough, I'm grateful for the opportunity to hear them at all. Even though I think a lot of the commercialisation is misguided, who can really begrudge an artist a shot at superstardom, expecially if they are magnificently talented?

The one thing I don't get in all this is why people feel cheated or somehow threatened by the prevalence of styles that don't meet their standards of purity. I really don't get it. Nobody is telling them what to listen to, or stopping them from playing what they like or listening only to records or tapes of what they like. So what's the problem? Purism is, pretty much by definition, only for the few. But if there are a lot of popularisers who keep telling their audience about the purer forms, a significant number of their fans will move on to the harder stuff. How can that be bad?

[djm]

What I don't get is when someone says they like something, and someone else says they don't like it, the first person immediately starts crying elitism and puritanism instead of facing the fact that others maybe just don't like what they like. It has nothing to do with elitism or puritanism. Just conflicting personal tastes.

djm

[BoneQuint]

The one thing I don't get in all this is why people feel cheated or somehow threatened by the prevalence of styles that don't meet their standards of purity. I really don't get it. Nobody is telling them what to listen to, or stopping them from playing what they like or listening only to records or tapes of what they like. So what's the problem? Purism is, pretty much by definition, only for the few. But if there are a lot of popularisers who keep telling their audience about the purer forms, a significant number of their fans will move on to the harder stuff. How can that be bad?

There's nothing wrong with people liking poppy, commercial music based on traditional music. But it's irksome when people think that's what traditional music IS, because that's all they've heard, because that's what marketing dollars have pushed in their faces. The "popular conception" of traditional music is more about what has a lot of money spent on it (and is therefore "produced" to appeal to the widest possible audience) than it is about the actual living music and traditions. That's a shame because much of what is direct and honest and experienced and human and subtle and moving is usually not "profitable" in the sense of making blockbuster records, but it's precisely what you'd like more people to be exposed to if you're not trying to make money off of them.

[Wombat]

There's nothing wrong with people liking poppy, commercial music based on traditional music. But it's irksome when people think that's what traditional music IS, because that's all they've heard, because that's what marketing dollars have pushed in their faces. The "popular conception" of traditional music is more about what has a lot of money spent on it (and is therefore "produced" to appeal to the widest possible audience) than it is about the actual living music and traditions. That's a shame because much of what is direct and honest and experienced and human and subtle and moving is usually not "profitable" in the sense of making blockbuster records, but it's precisely what you'd like more people to be exposed to if you're not trying to make money off of them.

Yes it is irksome. But the people who think ersatz trad is real trad don't really care. I used to think it was a lack of exposure but that's just wrong. I've played pure drop recordings to relatives and friends who claim to be interested in Irish and Scottish music and they clearly don't like it. I've then given them Scottish music with electric guitars and sound effects or teh Pogues and they love it. That's as celtic as they are ever going to get. These are not people who don't know any better. They are people who've been exposed to plenty of minority interest music and don't like it. They like pop music and choose to listen to it in full knowledge of what else is out there. There's loads of peer pressure on kids but not on adults. For a lot of people, entertainment just is light entertainment. I've pretty much stopped being irked by this. I know what you mean. But life is too short to be irked by something we can't possibly change.

But, and this is something I really want to know, even if only a handful of people go on to the pure drop from the commercialised, isn't that better than none at all which is what you'd get without the commercialisation? And once you get the commercialisation, you get the common misconceptions. You can't have the one without the other and I think the trade off is worth it.

[BoneQuint]

But the people who think ersatz trad is real trad don't really care.

Sometimes yes, sometimes not. I could use myself as an example. I've heard the Irish "supergroups" for decades, and while I thought they were nice to occasionally listen to, I never pursued Irish traditional music. It wasn't until hearing the older, earthier, small-group and solo stuff that I got into it more.

It's also interesting that many people who "don't like" older traditional stuff will enjoy it if they see it live, especially at a party or informal gathering.

For a lot of people, entertainment just is light entertainment. I've pretty much stopped being irked by this.

Yeah, I'm not really irked by that. Although, maybe some people are musically "deadened" by being inundated by pop dreck when they were very young, and just never get over it for the rest of their lives. I could consider that a bit sad as well.

But, and this is something I really want to know, even if only a handful of people go on to the pure drop from the commercialised, isn't that better than none at all which is what you'd get without the commercialisation? And once you get the commercialisation, you get the common misconceptions. You can't have the one without the other and I think the trade off is worth it.

I agree, in a way it's not a tradeoff -- it's inevitable and has always happened, although it's probably worse now with big money and world-wide mass-produced entertainment. And I agree that "poppier" groups do good by turning people onto the source music (in addition to the entertainment they provide). Many musicians as well as fans have gone that way themselves, initially being influenced by more commercial styles, then breaking away into traditional or avant garde, or any style less profitable but more soul-fulfilling for them.

[mat]

What I don't get is when someone says they like something, and someone else says they don't like it, the first person immediately starts crying elitism and puritanism instead of facing the fact that others maybe just don't like what they like. It has nothing to do with elitism or puritanism. Just conflicting personal tastes.

djm

Amen

[Nanohedron]

Elitist! Puritan!

[djm]

Damn! Found out again!

djm