Advise on buying a Bodhran
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vomitbunny
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mcfeeley
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Steafan Hannigan has two videos, beginning and advanced whichblackhawk wrote:While we're on the subject, are there any good instructional videos, or are they all trash?
are pretty good. Another good one is Tommy Hayes' "Bodhran,
Bones & Spoons."
Yipee! I just joined the 0.1 k club!
-- Dan M.
There beside the weed and thistle, a man, a dog, and his tin whistle.
There beside the weed and thistle, a man, a dog, and his tin whistle.
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RobBBQ
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Here's what I would do....
1. Get a nice drum. Do not buy a tar with a crossbar. Expect to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $250-$350. Maybe more, depending on what you decide on. Tuneable is a must. I prefer raw, flexible, thin goat or kangaroo skins. Other people like thicker skins for more of an American sound (more thud than pop), or tanned skins for very fat, attack-free tone. Its all a preference thing. The thing is, if you get a cheap drum, its going to limit you from the outset, and likely sound bad, which will discourage you from playing more, etc. etc. etc. get a good drum from the outset. People I would consider would be O'Kane, Alfonso, Davey Drums, Steve Forman Drums, and (dare I say?) Metloef...!
2. Don't get a drum over 15" in diameter. I say that because, in my humble opinion, anything larger is too big and inefficient. Efficiency with pitch modulation makes a lot of difference down the road. That, and starting on a "small" drum means that you'll not have to adjust to a smaller one later. The idea that 18" is "traditional" with respect to ITM is a pantload. Larger drums are somewhat more traditional in regards to the Wren boys, I suppose, but I have plenty of old photos from the early part of the century with folks playing smaller drums. In the current world of ITM, smaller drums reign. There is a reason for that.
3. If you can't find a living, breathing tutor near you, I would go for the MadForTrad CD tutorial with Frank Torpey. The reason is that you actually see the man play, and there are movies shot of both sides of the drum taken as he plays through any particular lesson. While he doesn't cover every style under the sun, the man does know what he is doing, and the resource is an excellent one for a beginner-intermediate player.
Hope that helps a little. Just one person's opinion...!
Good luck!
R
1. Get a nice drum. Do not buy a tar with a crossbar. Expect to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $250-$350. Maybe more, depending on what you decide on. Tuneable is a must. I prefer raw, flexible, thin goat or kangaroo skins. Other people like thicker skins for more of an American sound (more thud than pop), or tanned skins for very fat, attack-free tone. Its all a preference thing. The thing is, if you get a cheap drum, its going to limit you from the outset, and likely sound bad, which will discourage you from playing more, etc. etc. etc. get a good drum from the outset. People I would consider would be O'Kane, Alfonso, Davey Drums, Steve Forman Drums, and (dare I say?) Metloef...!
2. Don't get a drum over 15" in diameter. I say that because, in my humble opinion, anything larger is too big and inefficient. Efficiency with pitch modulation makes a lot of difference down the road. That, and starting on a "small" drum means that you'll not have to adjust to a smaller one later. The idea that 18" is "traditional" with respect to ITM is a pantload. Larger drums are somewhat more traditional in regards to the Wren boys, I suppose, but I have plenty of old photos from the early part of the century with folks playing smaller drums. In the current world of ITM, smaller drums reign. There is a reason for that.
3. If you can't find a living, breathing tutor near you, I would go for the MadForTrad CD tutorial with Frank Torpey. The reason is that you actually see the man play, and there are movies shot of both sides of the drum taken as he plays through any particular lesson. While he doesn't cover every style under the sun, the man does know what he is doing, and the resource is an excellent one for a beginner-intermediate player.
Hope that helps a little. Just one person's opinion...!
Good luck!
R
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lollycross
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WHAT!!!! $250-$350 for a DRUM!!!!
I bet none of us even spend that much for a Penny Whistle!
It just goes bang, bang at the back of the band's playing....this isn't
rock and roll....I'm not trying to be Ringo!
I thought people would write in and say "avoid a $30 one but
$50 on up should be fine"
If they REALLY cost $250, I'm sure banging on the cardboard box
will have to be good enough
Lolly
I bet none of us even spend that much for a Penny Whistle!
It just goes bang, bang at the back of the band's playing....this isn't
rock and roll....I'm not trying to be Ringo!
I thought people would write in and say "avoid a $30 one but
$50 on up should be fine"
If they REALLY cost $250, I'm sure banging on the cardboard box
will have to be good enough
Lolly
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Parcour25
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WHAT!!!! $250-$350 for a DRUM!!!!
I bet none of us even spend that much for a Penny Whistle!
It just goes bang, bang at the back of the band's playing....this isn't
rock and roll....I'm not trying to be Ringo!
there you go Rob........ talk about a pantload.
If I was you Lolly, I would just stretch the skin from tonights chichen dinner over an empty pie pan, and heat it in the oven till the dinner's done,
that should suffice...... Or else, just produce a circular mouth formation similar to my Emoticon above, place your mouth near the mic, and rap the top of your head several times, hard, with your knuckles, it will produce quite a satisfactory percussion sound for your record. The hollower the dome, the better.
Regards,
I bet none of us even spend that much for a Penny Whistle!
It just goes bang, bang at the back of the band's playing....this isn't
rock and roll....I'm not trying to be Ringo!
there you go Rob........ talk about a pantload.
If I was you Lolly, I would just stretch the skin from tonights chichen dinner over an empty pie pan, and heat it in the oven till the dinner's done,
that should suffice...... Or else, just produce a circular mouth formation similar to my Emoticon above, place your mouth near the mic, and rap the top of your head several times, hard, with your knuckles, it will produce quite a satisfactory percussion sound for your record. The hollower the dome, the better.
Regards,
Tryst me. I am, yours truly......
Parcour v. D'Chasse, Esq.
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ChrisLaughlin
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lollycross wrote:WHAT!!!! $250-$350 for a DRUM!!!!
.......It just goes bang, bang at the back of the band's playing....this isn't
rock and roll....I'm not trying to be Ringo!
Lolly
Lolly, are you aware that the most legendary bodhran player ever is named Ringo? Ringo McDonagh is his name and you can hear his playing on Mary Bergin's CDs. As for the price... your shock at the price is a bit of a reflection of why there are so many bad "bodhran players" in the world... so many people don't consider it a "real" instrument, don't pay to buy a decent one and don't put in any work to become a decent player. Playing the bodhran well is hard... it takes lots of work. It took me a couple of months just to get the very basics down fluently and start getting the sound I wanted (and that's with a VERY good bodhran). You shouldn't really expect to buy a cheap bodhran, pick up a stick and be able to play it well enough to record for a CD any more than you would expect to pick up a whistle for the first time and play decently. It is, very much, a real instrument... if you make it one. There is also the choice to join the thousands of punters who never really learn to play and thus give the bodhran a bad name... but I've listened to your music and it's good - I know you're determined to make good music.
Rob, who has posted above, makes very, very, very good, extremely enjoyable and satisfying to play, lovely sounding, great-looking drums. Invest in a good drum, like one of his, and it will lead you down a new road of enjoyment and discovery, just like the whistle has. Buy a cheap one and you'll likely end up going down a short road of frustration, give up the bodhran, put it in the closet and never discover the joy it can be.
Finally, the Mad for Trad bodhran tutorial by Frank Torpey of Nomos is, as Rob says, very good. I recommend it highly.
I hope this is somehow helpful.
Best,
Chris
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Parcour25
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Right, O.......
fer my offering of a "serious suggestion"....
synthetic... i.e. plastic, .......
the maker/manufacturer is called REMO. $30 bucks, lasts foyever, arndt it sounds gud, ta boot! hootie hoot.
fer my offering of a "serious suggestion"....
synthetic... i.e. plastic, .......
the maker/manufacturer is called REMO. $30 bucks, lasts foyever, arndt it sounds gud, ta boot! hootie hoot.
Tryst me. I am, yours truly......
Parcour v. D'Chasse, Esq.
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Save the trees,..... not the Bush....
Parcour v. D'Chasse, Esq.
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Save the trees,..... not the Bush....
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Brian Lee
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If you want a bodhrán - then BUY a bodhrán.
Synthetic heads don't cut it.
Double cross-bars don't cut it.
Non-tuneable doesn't cut it.
Drums with weird hardware all along the outside of the rim don't cut it.
Cheap imitations and tourist fodder don't cut it.
If you want it to sound like a bodhrán you need to get a real bodhran.
Be prepared to ante up for it too. Back in '99 I payed $400 for my first. I'll probably be looking at about $1,000 for a matched pair for the band soon too. Enough can't be said for buying a real instrument vs. a poorly made imitation.
Plenty of whistle players got their start on cheapies but more and more are finding the virtues of better quality instruments. It's not nearly as un-common anymore for a professional musician to spend several hundreds on a good whistle and drums are no different. In fact you should expect them to be more as the materials used are more costly and the labor is almost always greater.
I'd echo what's already been said regarding how bad you really want a drum. The bodhrán isn't something you can pick up and play overnight. I'd strongly suggest looking into a very good drum and then giving yourself a year or two to really learn the instrument - or just hire someone with the drum and the skill already. It will make a world of difference on any recording you plan to do.
Synthetic heads don't cut it.
Double cross-bars don't cut it.
Non-tuneable doesn't cut it.
Drums with weird hardware all along the outside of the rim don't cut it.
Cheap imitations and tourist fodder don't cut it.
If you want it to sound like a bodhrán you need to get a real bodhran.
Be prepared to ante up for it too. Back in '99 I payed $400 for my first. I'll probably be looking at about $1,000 for a matched pair for the band soon too. Enough can't be said for buying a real instrument vs. a poorly made imitation.
Plenty of whistle players got their start on cheapies but more and more are finding the virtues of better quality instruments. It's not nearly as un-common anymore for a professional musician to spend several hundreds on a good whistle and drums are no different. In fact you should expect them to be more as the materials used are more costly and the labor is almost always greater.
I'd echo what's already been said regarding how bad you really want a drum. The bodhrán isn't something you can pick up and play overnight. I'd strongly suggest looking into a very good drum and then giving yourself a year or two to really learn the instrument - or just hire someone with the drum and the skill already. It will make a world of difference on any recording you plan to do.
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RobBBQ
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I can't agree more with you guys.
I remember teaching at a workshop not so long ago. I was asking some of the students why they took up the drum, and one woman said "oh, I didn't have enough time to learn a real instrument". Of course, as Chris so correctly pointed out, that attitude gives all bodhran players the bad name that they (unfortuantely) so often deserve, because so many never take the instrument seriously enough to ever know hwat they are doing, or what the drum is there to do. Good players, be they on the bodhran, or whistle, or whatever are not a dime a dozen. But it also ought to be stressed that although a good player can make a bad instrument sound decent, a good instrument can also expand the possible sonic horizons for any given player.
If you've ever given UPipes a try (the brotherhood of dispair!) you know what I mean. In that case, a good instrument, in my opinion, is next to essential to learning correctly. I feel the same applies to most instruments in ITM, and the bodhran is no different. I can't tell you how many times people approach me asking "why doesn't my drum sound like the drum on xxx album?" The reason is because 99% of the time the owner doesn't own a bodhran, the owner owns a tar with a crossbar! A drum like that isn't SUPPOSED to sound like a bodhran. It would be like painting a celtic knot on a turd and calling it a genuine irish potato! MMMM!
That being said, I would say, just for advice's sake, if you don't want to put down the cash for a good drum, definitely use cardboard. In many cases, the cardboard sounds better than the $30-$50 job you'll get from eBay anyhow.
R
I remember teaching at a workshop not so long ago. I was asking some of the students why they took up the drum, and one woman said "oh, I didn't have enough time to learn a real instrument". Of course, as Chris so correctly pointed out, that attitude gives all bodhran players the bad name that they (unfortuantely) so often deserve, because so many never take the instrument seriously enough to ever know hwat they are doing, or what the drum is there to do. Good players, be they on the bodhran, or whistle, or whatever are not a dime a dozen. But it also ought to be stressed that although a good player can make a bad instrument sound decent, a good instrument can also expand the possible sonic horizons for any given player.
If you've ever given UPipes a try (the brotherhood of dispair!) you know what I mean. In that case, a good instrument, in my opinion, is next to essential to learning correctly. I feel the same applies to most instruments in ITM, and the bodhran is no different. I can't tell you how many times people approach me asking "why doesn't my drum sound like the drum on xxx album?" The reason is because 99% of the time the owner doesn't own a bodhran, the owner owns a tar with a crossbar! A drum like that isn't SUPPOSED to sound like a bodhran. It would be like painting a celtic knot on a turd and calling it a genuine irish potato! MMMM!
That being said, I would say, just for advice's sake, if you don't want to put down the cash for a good drum, definitely use cardboard. In many cases, the cardboard sounds better than the $30-$50 job you'll get from eBay anyhow.
R
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Parcour25
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true enough Rob,
but I'll mention that I often have my beginner classes play pizza boxes. Very nice thump pa-rump a' pump, pump. It sounds ridiculous, but I guarantee I could play a pizza box and record it at a session and it would sound better than 90%, well, maybe 60% of the drummers I've ever heard in pubs.
Albeit, very one dimensional in tone, as opposed to your marvelous, melodic drums, which I've never been so fortunate to own, but have played several time. Gobs O'Phun...!
I didn't realize that larger bodhran's were becoming outdated - I have 2 -18" and one 19" out of my 6 total. and I ain't givin' them up for fashion.
BTW - Wot's yer recipe fer turd potato(e)'s. Garlic and .... what? I've not been able to cook them properly and even my dog won't sample it.
Brian, - REMO synthetic/fyberskin is not as bad as you think.
Modern drumsets (of which I own many - and have been playing for 30 years) haven't used real calfskin in like 50- 60 years.
What? Plastic heads sound good on drums, imagine that......
Lolly, what do you think the invented CREDIT CARDS for.... Charge it!
but I'll mention that I often have my beginner classes play pizza boxes. Very nice thump pa-rump a' pump, pump. It sounds ridiculous, but I guarantee I could play a pizza box and record it at a session and it would sound better than 90%, well, maybe 60% of the drummers I've ever heard in pubs.
Albeit, very one dimensional in tone, as opposed to your marvelous, melodic drums, which I've never been so fortunate to own, but have played several time. Gobs O'Phun...!
I didn't realize that larger bodhran's were becoming outdated - I have 2 -18" and one 19" out of my 6 total. and I ain't givin' them up for fashion.
BTW - Wot's yer recipe fer turd potato(e)'s. Garlic and .... what? I've not been able to cook them properly and even my dog won't sample it.
Brian, - REMO synthetic/fyberskin is not as bad as you think.
Modern drumsets (of which I own many - and have been playing for 30 years) haven't used real calfskin in like 50- 60 years.
What? Plastic heads sound good on drums, imagine that......
Lolly, what do you think the invented CREDIT CARDS for.... Charge it!
Tryst me. I am, yours truly......
Parcour v. D'Chasse, Esq.
_________________
Save the trees,..... not the Bush....
Parcour v. D'Chasse, Esq.
_________________
Save the trees,..... not the Bush....
It helps a lot, thanks Chris.ChrisLaughlin wrote: Finally, the Mad for Trad bodhran tutorial by Frank Torpey of Nomos is, as Rob says, very good. I recommend it highly.
I hope this is somehow helpful.
Best,
Chris
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which is least known--Montaigne
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light
--Plato
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light
--Plato
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lollycross
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Hi guys,
You suggested that I "play a cardboard box".
Just for fun I found a nice wooden stick and a beautiful, thick-coated box that a sander had come in that my husband bought.
I "Played" it for 4 hours straight.
I certainly got a real LOW sound that I needed on the album, (as I don't have a bass player),
BUT, you were certainly right....NO TONE what-so-ever, no matter
how much I EQ'd the track! I thought it was very funny; my hubby was
not amused at me banging on it all morning. But I DID learn a lot.
There is one drum for sale in Reno at $110. I will check it out to see
who made it and if it sounds better that than beautiful cardboard box!!!
Thanks for all the advise; I will keep you posted. And I had a great
morning of learning how to make all those "wrist-operated" sounds.
Lolly
You suggested that I "play a cardboard box".
Just for fun I found a nice wooden stick and a beautiful, thick-coated box that a sander had come in that my husband bought.
I "Played" it for 4 hours straight.
I certainly got a real LOW sound that I needed on the album, (as I don't have a bass player),
BUT, you were certainly right....NO TONE what-so-ever, no matter
how much I EQ'd the track! I thought it was very funny; my hubby was
not amused at me banging on it all morning. But I DID learn a lot.
There is one drum for sale in Reno at $110. I will check it out to see
who made it and if it sounds better that than beautiful cardboard box!!!
Thanks for all the advise; I will keep you posted. And I had a great
morning of learning how to make all those "wrist-operated" sounds.
Lolly
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buddhu
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The good synthetics are surprisingly close to the sound of a real skin - not the same, but better than I expected. I'd say the only reason to go for synthetic over skin is if you are a veggie, as I am - no meat, no leather.
If you're an omnivore go for a tuneable drum with a good heavy skin. A fairly deep rim is better than a shallow one as it leaves more room for damping and control of the sound with your left hand (assuming you're right handed). Single strut or crosspiece is a matter of personal preference. If you're going to play standing up then a crosspiece is more practical. Avoid most Spanish, Mid-East and Pakistani drums as the skins tend to be poor quality.
As for how to get a bodhran: just borrow one and leave it in your car with the door unlocked. Go for a coffee and when you get back there'll be half a dozen bodhrans there...
How do you know when there's a bodhran player at the door? The knocking gets faster and faster
etc etc etc...
Actually, I'm in the mood to get flamed ready for the weekend, so:
I have little interest in expensive intruments for trad folk music. My whistles are Feadogs, Gens, Clarkes and a Doolin. My bodhrans are cheapies (£50 gbp approx) but ones that I checked out for quality before buying - good skins etc. It seems almost to go against the grain to use instruments so perfectly produced as to be quite alien to the basic tools that the old-timers would have had access to.
When people talk about testing frequencies and tuning with scopes and tuners my eyes glaze over - Jesus, it's not an orchestra we're trying to harmonise here... if yr ears ain't up to it perhaps you shouldn't be a musician.
Spending hundreds of pounds on an instrument for playing good traditional folkie, jiggy, reely dance music is mad. Mad, I tell you...
I approve of cardboard though - cheap as you like and very "skiffle".
If you're an omnivore go for a tuneable drum with a good heavy skin. A fairly deep rim is better than a shallow one as it leaves more room for damping and control of the sound with your left hand (assuming you're right handed). Single strut or crosspiece is a matter of personal preference. If you're going to play standing up then a crosspiece is more practical. Avoid most Spanish, Mid-East and Pakistani drums as the skins tend to be poor quality.
As for how to get a bodhran: just borrow one and leave it in your car with the door unlocked. Go for a coffee and when you get back there'll be half a dozen bodhrans there...
How do you know when there's a bodhran player at the door? The knocking gets faster and faster
etc etc etc...
Actually, I'm in the mood to get flamed ready for the weekend, so:
I have little interest in expensive intruments for trad folk music. My whistles are Feadogs, Gens, Clarkes and a Doolin. My bodhrans are cheapies (£50 gbp approx) but ones that I checked out for quality before buying - good skins etc. It seems almost to go against the grain to use instruments so perfectly produced as to be quite alien to the basic tools that the old-timers would have had access to.
When people talk about testing frequencies and tuning with scopes and tuners my eyes glaze over - Jesus, it's not an orchestra we're trying to harmonise here... if yr ears ain't up to it perhaps you shouldn't be a musician.
Spending hundreds of pounds on an instrument for playing good traditional folkie, jiggy, reely dance music is mad. Mad, I tell you...
I approve of cardboard though - cheap as you like and very "skiffle".
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
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FJohnSharp
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Re drum prices
Decent quality snare drums start at $350 and go up to three thou. If you consider that theer is not a whole lot more workmanship that goes into a snare drum than a bodhran, remembering that the skin is very labor intensive, three-four hundred dollar bodhrans seem reasonable.
Also, a good tamborine--symphonic quality--start at a hundred dollars.
A good set of bongos runs a couple hundred.
Decent quality snare drums start at $350 and go up to three thou. If you consider that theer is not a whole lot more workmanship that goes into a snare drum than a bodhran, remembering that the skin is very labor intensive, three-four hundred dollar bodhrans seem reasonable.
Also, a good tamborine--symphonic quality--start at a hundred dollars.
A good set of bongos runs a couple hundred.
"Meon an phobail a thogail trid an chultur"
(The people’s spirit is raised through culture)
Suburban Symphony
(The people’s spirit is raised through culture)
Suburban Symphony