Musical Snobery

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Caj
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Post by Caj »

The Weekenders wrote:Most of what is perceived as snobbery is the result of two opposing tendencies: the tendency of the newcomer to be hyper-sensitive about their presentation and the tendency of the regulars to have control and hierarchies.

Hiya Weeks,

We also have a third factor: while newbies are hyper-sensitive about their own playing, they often don't notice things about what's going on around them---e.g., how the session is run, how often to start one's own tunes and when, as well as actual musical factors such as whether or not one is in tune, or in key, or off the beat, or too loud.

It happens quite a bit that a newcomer will hijack a pause just before someone else starts to play. Even if it's obvious to everyone else that the session is being run round-robin, or even if the whole group has just spent a minute begging a second newcomer to start a tune, and everybody else is facing that person. People are nervous, and miss these things. I guess it's also a matter of skill to be aware of the group dynamics, as much as being aware of the tempo.

BLAH BLAH BLAH ETC ETC ETC

That being said, I never encountered snobbebobbery at the local session, where people are happy to end a tune set with "shave and a haircut," or play a Boehm flute, or a piano accordion w/ the basses. Recently some guy started coming in with an amplified electric bass. But he's a really good musician with phenomenal listening skills and everything just works.

I suppose that with sufficient musical ability, there is no basis for instrumental snobbery.

Caj
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Post by Whitmores75087 »

It sounds like you headed for a session before you were ready.
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Post by emmline »

Maybe it's that some people are suited for the culture, rules, and ritual of The Session, and some are better suited to low key mucking around, and it's best to know who you are.
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Post by Nanohedron »

Agreed, emmline. I must register my despair at the last phrase, however. Knowing oneself may well be at a premium; in any case I'm continually struck by those who presume that everyone else is on their wavelength.
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Post by GaryKelly »

The Weekenders wrote: Me? I just like seeing the word "snobery" every day at the top of the pile.
There ya go, Weeks... :)

Spotted what I took to be a Snobe Joke on the web the other day...

How many Irish flutists does it take to change a light-bulb? None...there's nothing wrong with the old one that some superglue, tape and Guinness won't cure.

How many classical flautists does it take to change a lightbulb? One, but they'll pay £5000 for a gold-plated ladder.
Image "It might be a bit better to tune to one of my fiddle's open strings, like A, rather than asking me for an F#." - Martin Milner
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Post by Wombat »

GaryKelly wrote:
How many Irish flutists does it take to change a light-bulb? None...there's nothing wrong with the old one that some superglue, tape and Guinness won't cure.

How many classical flautists does it take to change a lightbulb? One, but they'll pay £5000 for a gold-plated ladder.
How many men from Swindon does it take to tell a light bulb joke? One, but he'll give you two for the price of one.

There you go. And that wasn't even funny, unless, like me, you've lived in Oxford where every Swindon joke is funny.

Seriously—can't you tell I'm in that frame of mind?—two things occur to me about snobbery. One is the way people keep reminding us that a session isn't a jam session. What they seem to have in mind is a sort of 60s and 70s rock and roll jam session in which the players alternated blues with a boogaloo beat with one-chord jams and someone who couldn't play at all banged away on bongos. Actually the jam session evolved from what used to be called just as often the cutting session: improvised sessions where the top players had shoot outs to determine the pecking order and incompetent, or merely lesser, musicians were often quite literally thrown out. At his first appearance at one of these events in Kansas City, Charlie Parker had a cymbal thrown at him by a very angry drummer. Whatever you might think about the competitiveness, and whether or not its for you, events like this have a right to exist. In jazz, this was where the new styles were forged and witnesses say that the best jazz you could ever hear was played at these events, with no paying audience to please and nowhere to hide if you are faking. Obviously something very much like snobbery is at work here, perhaps something potentially far more offensive, but that seems to me to be entirely appropriate. People who aren't the best don't have some God-given right never to be made aware of the fact.

Some Irish sessions tend towards the everyone welcome, social event, one-chord-jam, let it all hang out, hippy jam session. You can tell its an Irish session only because everybody is playing the Kesh jig (probably with a boogaloo rhythm), except for the guy who's playing Out On the Ocean and wondering why everybody else is driving on the wrong side of the road, and the bongo player has brought a bodhran instead. Then there are the sessions which are more like cutting sessions. The best sessions of this kind are not really competitions but they are occasions in which great players take the music to heights that only equals can reach. That's where snobbery is so often sensed and often actually openly dispensed. But a single insensitive or struggling player can ruin the magic.

I think both kinds of session have a legitimate purpose and therefore a right to exist. What is unpleasant is the snob who wants to turn the free-for-all into a cutting contest or the yobbo who wants to turn the exquisite meeting of talents into a free-for-all. I suppose it's very hard for people to have clearly defined rules for sessions because most fall somewhere in between placing the onus fairly and squarely on everyone present to listen carefully and to err on the side of reticence.
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Post by GaryKelly »

Wombat - I'm off to Oxford on Saturday to test-drive (and probably purchase!) a new flute. And maybe a concertina too, always fancied having a go on one of them...

As for the 'snobery' described in this thread, I have to confess that the idea of an open 'session' was something quite alien to me until I ventured into whistle and IrTrad. First I heard of a 'session' was here on the board.

Until recently, my musical history involved playing rhythm guitar in a five-ship of enthusiastic R&B dudes some 20 years ago. It would never have occurred to me then, for example, to stroll into a pub with my Gibson and just jack in to some other band's amps and play along with them, and of course no-one ever did that when our band played either. Just wasn't done!

Indeed, the only time anyone ever "joined in" was while I was playing solo acoustic guitar in a pub in Hong Kong...I was propped up in the corner of The Smuggler's Inn strumming away when in strolled a chap with a bagful of Blues Harps, and next thing we had an impromptu acoustic blues set going, much to the delight of the barman and the five other drunken bums in there that night :)

There's only one "Irish" event in Swindon that I know of. Apparently it happens on the first Saturday of every month at one of the local pubs. I've never managed to get there (other commitments) but there's no way I'd have the brass neck just to womble up to 'em while they're performing, whip out a whistle and start playing along! Those guys are getting paid to provide that entertainment; they're a "band" or a "group" and I'm not a member thereof. To be honest, if I did have the requisite brass appendages, I wouldn't be at all surprised if those chaps told me to stoat off in no uncertain terms, and I wouldn't consider it snobbery if they did.

I'm hoping to get to see 'em one of these months, and find out who they are and what they're playing. Musical Snobbery isn't something I have much personal experience of, except for the time I walked into a music shop here in Swindon and asked if they had any wooden or bamboo flutes... "Might I suggest you try the local Oxfam, sir?" said the tw*t behind the counter...
Image "It might be a bit better to tune to one of my fiddle's open strings, like A, rather than asking me for an F#." - Martin Milner
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Post by The Weekenders »

I love the light bulb joke, Gary! :lol: :lol:
How do you prepare for the end of the world?
Cayden

Post by Cayden »

How many Irish does it take to change a lightbulb?

21, one to hold the lightbulb and twenty to drink enough to make the room spin

Don't blame me, Jackie Daly told me that one last week [and there we're back to snobery :D ]
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Caj
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Post by Caj »

Peter Laban wrote:How many Irish does it take to change a lightbulb?

21, one to hold the lightbulb and twenty to drink enough to make the room spin

Don't blame me, Jackie Daly told me that one last week [and there we're back to snobery :D ]
How many New Jersey residents it take to screw in a light bulb?

Three: one to screw in the light bulb, one to witness it, and a third to shoot the witness.

How many marxists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

None: the lightbulb contains within itself the seeds of its own revolution.

Oh, and my favorite...

How many English majors does it take to screw in a light bulb?

It takes three:

One to take the light bulb that is burnt,
Smoldering from latent heat and light,
Twisting it until it has been turnt,
Enough to take it from the socket's site.

One to find a new bulb to insert,
Deep within that silver socket twirled,
Shiny, full of gas that is inert,
Prepared to radiate upon the world.

One to fit this new bulb in its stall,
Twisting right as previously left,
And then to flip the switch upon the wall,
Enlightening a room of light bereft.

Of course, the English majors have no job,
And of this light bulb they were forced to rob.


A-MEN.

Caj
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Post by Pat Cannady »

Picture this:

You're driving along at a good clip down an old country road when you spot your local Irtrad music festival director crossing the road up ahead with a bones player who wrecked your session the previous night.

Which one do you run over first? :twisted:


A: The director, of course. Business before pleasure.


What do you do after hitting them both?


A: Back up and hit them again. Repeat as necessary :twisted:
Last edited by Pat Cannady on Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dunnp »

Hey Luis (papo),
I noticed in one of your threads that you mention playing the cuatro. I play a bit on the cuatro myself. I am not Puerto Rican but live in a community with a large puerto rican population and get to hear some great cuatro music occasionaly (Yomo Torro my current favorite any suggestions?). My father and a good friend of his began a project making cuatros in the tech highschool they work in that before funding left was going great. As for snobbery the cuatro works great to back and play Irish music and I sometimes play Puerto Rican tunes on my flute and whistle. My father can play every tune he plays on the fiddle on the cuatro and I think the tone outdoes even some of the nicer bouzoukis i've heard.
Anyway just nice to hear about cuatros hear, Take Care Patrick
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Post by BrassBlower »

Here's one our Norwegian members would appreciate:

Listener: How long have you been playing hardingfele?
Fiddler: Oh, about five years. Of course, I've been tuning for ten.
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Post by Wombat »

Peter Laban wrote:How many Irish does it take to change a lightbulb?

21, one to hold the lightbulb and twenty to drink enough to make the room spin

Don't blame me, Jackie Daly told me that one last week [and there we're back to snobery :D ]
Peter, I'm thoroughly shocked. Living where you do, shouldn't you be telling Kerry man jokes rather than Irish jokes? :wink:

Well, perhaps you live a little too close to Kerry for comfort. :D
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Post by herbivore12 »

Q: How many boring people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: One.


[For those Californians who've never had the dubious pleasure of travelling to -- well, through -- Swindon, it's sort of a knackered Fresno kind of town (Sorry, Gary!). The British comedian Eddie Izzard has a great bit about what the space program would have been like if the UK had been in the race to the moon, too: a guy on a really tall ladder in Swindon, telling someone on a cell phone that he can see their house from up there.

Maybe it's funnier when the joke's being told by a transvestite . . .]
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