OT C. G. Jung

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talasiga
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Post by talasiga »

jim stone wrote:I want to say again that many, perhaps most, forms of
psychotherapy aren't analysis. There is a wide
range of treatment modalities, in a fair
number nothing gets analyzed. Lots of
people in psychotherapy look at
analysis as Australians do.

Yep!
I have been an adult Australian since the early seventies
and in my experience the cities of of Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane have been replete
with the range of modalities
from the mainstream analytical stream to the EXPERIENTIAL
modalities such as Gestalt Therapy, Bioenergetics (neo-Reichian),
Primal Therapy Centres and so on.
There is a Jungian society in Sydney.

In my experience most people tend
to have a negative stereotype about analytical therapy
and tend to go for the experiential stuff
once they got over the New Age bogey projections about it.


I really don't know too much about "sub tropical" Wollongong though.
Tend to avoid it.

(I once went to a trade union meeting in Wollongong and my mates went in to a pub and I went with them (3 of us).
As I am not a drinker I ordered some mineral water and as the barman served us someone yelled,
"Hey, look what we've got here - the good, the bad and the ugly!"
It took years of expensive therapy for me to work out that I was the "good" one.
I really can't afford to vist Wollongong, you know
)


NB. material in italics is fictional for your possible entertainment
just like Wombat's board name, I am sure.
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
jim stone
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Post by jim stone »

There was a Primal Scream group in Boulder
Colorado that I am told ended when
the last member committed suicide,
having been preceded by the others.
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talasiga
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Let us Uncover a Forum Archetype

Post by talasiga »

jim stone wrote:There was a Primal Scream group in Boulder
Colorado that I am told ended when
the last member committed suicide,
having been preceded by the others.

Jim!
I have been accused of being the Jim Stone of the ITM forums
down in one of the ITM topics.

What are you?
Some sort of an archetype in these parts here?
Have you been subtly infiltrating my psyche?
:x

All I said was that it was women who first played the bodhran in ancient times and I quoted an Irish scholar who hypothesised so.
8)

Could Jung have ever imagined such an archetype:

A red headed, green eyed four armed shelagh
weilding a flute, bodhran, harp and bones ?
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jim stone
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Post by jim stone »

You will be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.

Will it be winter in Australia during
may, june, and july?
Are universities in session?
Are there places to live
that my wife and I could rent for
a couple of months?

I think I'd like to go to Australia,
never been, but we need to
stay somewhere so that my
wife can publish and not perish.

The late David Lewis, one of the best
philosophers of the last century, who
Wombat and I knew personally and,
I daresay, loved, talked only of philosophy,
Australia, and electric trains. He was immensely
shy. The basement of his house
was an enormous electric-train terrain,
and if he really liked you, he would let
you play--I never had the opportunity,
don't know about Wombat.
David had a leather hat from Australia
and I once tried fruitlessly to
get him to trade hats. Anyhow
I figure if he liked Australia,
I should go there. Best
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Bloomfield
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Re: Let us Uncover a Forum Archetype

Post by Bloomfield »

talasiga wrote:Jim!
I have been accused of being the Jim Stone of the ITM forums
down in one of the ITM topics.
Being the Jim Stone of the ITM forum was the mildest of the offenses that you have been accused of over there, if that's any comfort to either you or Jim. ;)
/Bloomfield
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Post by jim stone »

The truth is that I am Bloomfield.
Also talisiga. Sort of like the
Trinity but less important.
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Monster
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Post by Monster »

Talisiga Wrote

All I said was that it was women who first played the bodhran in ancient times and I quoted an Irish scholar who hypothesised so.


Could Jung have ever imagined such an archetype:

A red headed, green eyed four armed shelagh
weilding a flute, bodhran, harp and bones ?


Sounds pretty good to me! That is except for the bit about four arms.
insert uber smart comment here
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

jim stone wrote:
Will it be winter in Australia during
may, june, and july?
Are universities in session?
Are there places to live
that my wife and I could rent for
a couple of months?
More like June, July and August. Whether or not you call it winter really depends on where you are. Speaking in very rough terms, there's a mountain range all along the Eastern seaboard. The climate on the west of the range is more continental than that on the east. Just talking of the coastal fringe, where nearly all the universities are, from Brisbane on up there really is no winter, just wet and dry seasons. The weather is pretty hot though. May, June and July are dry season months. (I think the rains are over by May; I've never lived that far north.) Actually, from Brisbane to Melbourne it can rain at any time of year so wet and dry are relative terms.

Melbourne and Adelaide have fairly Mediterranean climates. Melbourne, in particular, has a real winter, but don't expect snow. Both have low humidity and in summer temperatures soar—frequently over 95 degrees F. Sydney is strangely in between. It has an odd climate like Wollongong but the oddness is accentuated in Wollongong because the mountains are so close to the sea. There are four seasons but they are not terribly different. Like Brisbane, Sydney is warm and mainly dry in winter but cool at night. Sydney would probably be even less volatile in temperature if it weren't for the mountains. In winter and even spring there is snow on the mountains and when the wind blows off teh mountains it can feel quite cold. As soon as the wind changes direction it's mild again. Sydney is warm and humid most of the year. The temperature is rarely very high but rarely low either. I suppose Sydney and Wollongong are half way between having a monsoonal climate and having a Mediterranean climate ..except the mountains and sea make both places humid.

The best bet would be to set yourself and your wife up with pigeon holes and work facilities at one of the Unis. or bioethics centres. Send me a PM and I'll talk about how we could set this up. It shouldn't be hard.
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Post by Zubivka »

Wombat wrote:Although it's taking this thread OT, I thought I'd elaborate further a bit on my answers to Stuart. I think this thing about cultural stereotyping is very interesting [...]
And certainly not OT: we're smack in Jung, here ;)
Ridseard wrote:It is unfortunate that he has become a sort of guru to many New Agers and other cult-types, who interpret his ideas according to what they want to believe rather than seriously attempting to understand what he was trying to communicate. The notion of the 'collective unconscious' is particularly subject to this sort of abuse, as is 'synchronicity.' Aaaarrrggh!
Same could be said of what's made of Reich as well: the "orgone" taken litterally and the rest of the folklore before the message.
Are these the new myths? :D
jim stone wrote:A story about Jung that rather says something
about the man:

a fellow came to Jung and showed him
a book he had written analysing himself.
Jung read the book, talked to the man,
and concluded the book was entirely accurate.

'Then how is it that I'm still neurotic?'
the man asked.

'How did you get all the time to write this book?'

'I'm being supported by a wealthy woman.
She believes I'm going to marry her, but
I have no intention of doing so.'

'That's why you're still neurotic' Jung said.

The man left in a huff.
Good one!

May explain why therapists here prefer being "strict Freudians" (or worse, but sooo Froonch: Lacanian):
you can milk the patient much longer :lol:

Seriously, it's a pity these great names are used as labels for their quack by so many self-annointed charlatan "analysts".
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Post by mcfeeley »

Wombat wrote:Australians, by and large, are rather sceptical of the benefits of analysis in all its forms. There is a tendency to regard it as self indulgent and 'something Americans do.' Intellectuals who grew up in the 30s and 40s were much enamored of Freud, though, and they reacted with dissappointment and some annoyance when their intellectual children and grandchildren regarded psychoanalysis as a fascinating but dated fad.
Interesting discussion! Maybe I can add a little more to Wombat's analysis (pun intended) on Oz cultural differences v/s the U.S.

I think what he is getting at might be characterized as a uniquely Australian suspicion of the over-elaborate and unnecessary. USA culture can, in different ways, be characterized as materialistic and even self indulgent, especially when compared with the living situations and cultures of other countries (I'm trying to word this very carefully and with respect to other people's positions -- I don't want to touch off another thread! Apologies in advance if I've inadvertently offended readers outside the U.S.).

Graham Sanders, a well known homebrewer from Townsville, North Queensland, has talked on Internet brewing lists on the differences he sees between USA and Australian culture, mostly in regards to a kind of laid back attitude in what he called TPOS. This is an acronym for a more polite UK phrase "Taking the Mickey out of someone." It's a kind of teasing that goes on between mates and other cronies, nothing serious, but quickly shows what kind of character you have, especially if you over react. Americans, folk from the USA, in Graham's experience, were often much too overserious and consequently become a set up for what he labeled as a purely Australian social convention, according to Graham.

The custom may be more wide spread -- I've heard of similar examples in Ireland and England. Maybe what Graham was referring to was a particularly Australian flavor to the practice.

Back to the more pragmatic perspective on therapy and analysis: There was a very good tongue in cheek post on a discussion group for psychological and psychiatric trauma, posted by Dave Stratton, a psychiatrist on the Gold Coast in Australia, that I think illustrates what Wombat was getting at. Keep in mind that this is a very competent psychiatrist, making a point in the middle of a flame war over some of the more esoteric modes of psychotherapy, with a sense of Australian humor that scored some good points. Might even have been what Graham called TPOS. :D

---------------------------[snip!]--------------------------------------
There are many different ways to classify mental experience and phenomena. The DSMx system has too much of a ring of certainty about it. The danger is that people might believe it really represents 'Truth,' rather than 'Usefulness for the time being.' I prefer 'like' statements to 'is' statements generally, and for that reason I admire metaphors as ways of describing patterns in nature. One such system of classifying the patients I see in my practice goes as follows:

People are divided into two types: Tacklers and Avoiders.

Problems are divided into two types: Tacklable and Avoidable.

When a Tackler strikes a Tacklable problem, they tackle it and I never see them. When an Avoider strikes an Avoidable problem, they avoid it, and psychiatrists, and I never see them. The people I see are Tacklers who hit an Avoidable problem, and Avoiders who hit a Tacklable problem. I spend half my time teaching Tacklers how to avoid, and the other half teaching Avoiders how to tackle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Dan M.

There beside the weed and thistle, a man, a dog, and his tin whistle.
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talasiga
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Post by talasiga »

Bloomfield wrote:
talasiga wrote:Jim!
I have been accused of being the Jim Stone of the ITM forums
down in one of the ITM topics.
Being the Jim Stone of the ITM forum was the mildest of the offenses that you have been accused of over there, if that's any comfort to either you or Jim. ;)
Interestingly, you found me to be so detestably patronising that you
could no longer bring yourself to particpate
in this ITM Forum topic
but now you follow me here to engage with me.

This is surely some sort of a psychotherapeutic breakthrough
for Bloomfield
and it happened first in the
OT C G JUNG topic !!
8)

Personally speaking, I feel that
Voice Dialogue beats fiddle playing any day
whereas nothing surpasses the flute
for the flute holds the secret
of our voices
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
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talasiga
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Post by talasiga »

Anthropomorphic Prayer

jim stone wrote:The truth is that I am Bloomfield.
Also talisiga. Sort of like the
Trinity but less important.
In the name of the bloom
the field and the stone,
forever and ever
talasiga!

.
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

mcfeeley wrote:
Wombat wrote:Australians, by and large, are rather sceptical of the benefits of analysis in all its forms. There is a tendency to regard it as self indulgent and 'something Americans do.' Intellectuals who grew up in the 30s and 40s were much enamored of Freud, though, and they reacted with dissappointment and some annoyance when their intellectual children and grandchildren regarded psychoanalysis as a fascinating but dated fad.
Interesting discussion! Maybe I can add a little more to Wombat's analysis (pun intended) on Oz cultural differences v/s the U.S.

I think what he is getting at might be characterized as a uniquely Australian suspicion of the over-elaborate and unnecessary. USA culture can, in different ways, be characterized as materialistic and even self indulgent, especially when compared with the living situations and cultures of other countries ......

......TPOS. This is an acronym for a more polite UK phrase "Taking the Mickey out of someone." It's a kind of teasing that goes on between mates and other cronies, nothing serious, but quickly shows what kind of character you have, especially if you over react. Americans, folk from the USA, in Graham's experience, were often much too overserious and consequently become a set up for what he labeled as a purely Australian social convention, according to Graham.

The custom may be more wide spread -- I've heard of similar examples in Ireland and England.
Very interesting post. I've just quoted the bit I'm going to comment on. Although a very characterisitc Australian attitude, I don't think this is uniquely Australian by any means. The phrase, 'Take the Micky' is cockney rhyming slang and I've already suggested that this is a British thing as well. I think suspicion of therapy is widespread in Britain and this has been confirmed by others. It might be the 'stiff upper lip' phenomenon in the upper middle class but down the East End, throughout South London, in Liverpool and lots of other places it's much the same as in Australia. It's pretty common in Ireland too. Cockney and Irish influences are very big in the Australian character, if there is such a thing.
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Post by Dale »

I've been working for 10 years on an opera about Jung, in which James Brown would play Jung. It's tentatively called
"Funky Animus: James Brown is Carl Jung."

The songs are all meant to illustrate various aspects of Jungian psychology and the narrative includes Jung & Freud "singing" their famous correspondence to each other. Freud has yet to be cast, but the favorite to win the part at this time is Celine Dion.

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Post by jim stone »

This idea is not the product of an ordinary mind.
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