advanced ornaments

[chas]

I've read a lot about rolls, cuts, taps crans and slides. I've incorporated them into my playing, still better on the whistle than on the flute. But in listening more closely to flute players, I realize there's a lot more than cuts, taps, and rolls going on.

I recently learned the Blarney Pilgrim from the Coen Brothers album. I had thought Jack played things pretty straight, but then I listened to the (mostly) flute channel, and he doesn't do a lot of flashy stuff, but a lot of cuts and taps, and a lot short trills.

I just love this "tasteful" playing. (By "tasteful" I mean the more relaxed tempo with sparser or less obvious ornaments, no disrespect to other styles intended.) Does anyone have any advice on executing and incorporating this more, I dunno, sedate(?) style to ones playing? Sorry for the ambiguous expression, but I just love the style that sounds unornamented on the surface, but is more complex in execution.

TIA, Charlie

[lesl]

I try to play this way myself (relaxed tempo with sparser or less obvious
ornaments). I would suggest you listen to as much as you can of it and
then go to slow-down mode and listen some more.

I haven't studied Jack's playing in depth so I can't tell you exactly what he
does, but I'm sure some of his students could. The cd of Warming Up with
Martin Mulhaire has some great Jack tracks on it by the way.

Lesl

[johnkerr]

I seriously doubt that Jack Coen would ever put himself forward as the poster child for "advanced ornaments." I took a week-long flute class with him every summer for five years or so back when he was teaching at the Augusta Irish week back in the early '90s, and the sum total of the instruction he gave us on ornamentation is "you just wiggle your fingers a bit there." He may have shown us how to play a roll, but if so it would have been only on G or A, as those are the only notes he rolls. But all this talk of crans, backstitches, short rolls, long rolls, double cut rolls, etc, that would be totally foreign to him. He just plays tunes, and in a lovely understated style that's not often heard any more. As Charlie noted, though, it's far from a simple style - there's a lot going on in Jack's playing. Lots of little finger twicks here and there. You'd really notice the intricacy of it if you ever sat right next to him - there's a lot that doesn't make it onto recordings.

But even though he doesn't ornament in the common sense of that term, Jack's playing teaches a lot about ornamentation. The things you learn from Jack's playing are these: It's more important WHERE you ornament than HOW you ornament. The ornament should never draw attention to itself, rather it should draw attention to the part of the tune that lies underneath it. The ornament doesn't hide the tune, instead it draws it out and embellishes it. These are the big truths about ornamentation in Irish music, and if you know and internalize them, then all you really need to know about ornamentation is that "you just wiggle your fingers a bit."

[jim stone]

will you say what a backstitch is?

Increasingly I feel that ornamentation
tends to fall into place more with
experience--sorry, that's pretty obvious.
But erring on the side of less, and
really thinking about where you
want to do it, and then, well,
playing for a couple of years,
can tend to sort things out.

I continue to find the Grey Larson
cran increasingly useful,
especially because I can use
it on more notes, including in
the second octave. An interesting
substitute for a roll.

[peeplj]

Rob has a description of a backstitch on his ornamentation tutorial at

http://www.geocities.com/feadanach/ornamentation3.html

Note that Peter Laban tells me this is not what the term means on the pipes. I once "got in trouble" for posting this definition when someone else asked about the backstitch, so this time I'll let Rob's page do its own talking.

What he describes is an effective ornament on flute, no matter what you call it.

--James

[Grixxly]

...

... but then I listened to the (mostly) flute channel, and he ...TIA, Charlie

Flute channel? Do you have some kind of software that can seperate the instruments? There are some Danu' tunes I'd like to learn but it doesn't sound right when I use Windows Media Player to slow it down and then sometimes I have a hard time trying to hear just the flute... Just checking

Cheers,
Tony

[chas]

Tony, the way the stereo is done on the disc, there's more flute in one channel and more box in the other. They're not by any means perfectly separated, but it makes it easier to hear Jack "wiggle his fingers."

Johnkerr, thanks for your post, it really drives home the point that (as I've been told before) one eventually learns to just do things where the music invites it, without even thinking about it. That's my goal; I don't expect it to happen overnight (I do need to pick up the mechanics first), but it sure would be nice to pick it up sooner rather than later.

[jim stone]

Thanks, James.

[Ro3b]

Note that Peter Laban tells me this is not what the term means on the pipes. I once "got in trouble" for posting this definition when someone else asked about the backstitch, so this time I'll let Rob's page do its own talking.

What he describes is an effective ornament on flute, no matter what you call it.

Yeah, I call the technique backstitching because that's what Seamus Tansey calls it and I don't think it has any other name. One of my students called it "the blobbity blobbity thing," which is about as good a name. The only thing it has in common with the piping ornament is its tendency to annoy people if you use it too much.

[peeplj]

Rob, you definitely get the prize for the most disturbing avatar I've seen today!

Thanks for adding that: if Seamus Tansey calls it that, I reckon that makes it a good name for it in my book.

I would like a clearer definition of what a backstitch is on the pipes; could you describe it, or point me to a recording with a good example of one?

Thanks.

--James

[tin tin]

For learning the mechanics and musical applications of ornaments, the Grey Larsen book is hard to beat. Everything is very clearly and logically presented.
Micah

[fancypiper]

I would like a clearer definition of what a backstitch is on the pipes; could you describe it, or point me to a recording with a good example of one?

Patsy Touhey was best known for backstitching, so I suggest: The Piping of Patsy Touhey. Jackson's Jig, The Humors of Glin, The Irish Washerwoman have good examples of backstitching.

Two notes of the same pitch are cut with two tight notes in the opposite hand is the best way I can explain it.

I know it when I hear it but I can't do it.

[Cayden]

The term 'Backstitching' was introduced to the pipeing community in the Touhey book, it was taken from New York piper Tom Busby who used that name. In it's original meaning it refers to ending a tune with 'a great shower of fingers' a long run of triplets as a flourish to end the piece or 'to stitch it up'. The term has become attached to the ornament used for the stitch rather than to the action of ending the tune.
In short, a two note ornament comes attached to melody notes, creating a staccato or tight triplet sort of a figure. The top hand notes are attached to GF and the lower hand notes get CA attached. In hornpipes like the Harvest Home [an example from the playing of piper R O Meally] eAfA gAfA may become (3ecA (3fcA (3gcA (3fcA
In Jigs a descending pattern of rolls like g3 f3 e3 may be played as (3gcA g (3fcA f (3ecA e and upperhand patterns like ded BGB AFA G3 may be played as d (3GFd B (3GFB A (3GFA G3 to end a part of a jig.

It's a fairly simple and easy enough procedure which drives you up the wall if employed other than with the utmost restraint.

[peeplj]

Thank you, Peter. That satisfies my curiosity!

--James

[jim stone]

I think I can apply it very sparingly. Thanks