Is this right? (notation question)

[Chuck_Clark]

In order to learn a new tune, I generally use a combination of ear and printed score. I've run across a funny roadblock.

The tune is "Green Fields of France", aka "Willie McBride". As written the first ten notes are D-D_D_D_G_G_E_E_C(lower)_A(lower). As far as I know, that can't be done on a six hole D whistle. When printed in pennywhistle notation, though, it prints the ninth and tenth notes as oxxooo and xxoooo. When played, though, this of course forces the C and A UP an octave.

Assuming my question makes any sense, is it legitimate to play it that way?

[BillG]

Chuck - I'm not the expert here but I do know that in flute when this happens in the notation you can either go up to the second octave or fake it with a tripelet or some other ornamentation. You can also select the proper keyed whistle (see a chart on C&F on keys) and select one that, in third finger position or maybe second, covers the bottom notes then play it io that keyed whistle. This is a project I'm working on now and have posted it here earlier. I'll try to find it and give you the address for it.

BillG

[BillG]

Chuck - go back about three pages to 10MAR04 and look for "Sea Chanties " post by me. Some listers answered but more needs to be learned by me on the subject.

BillG

[talasiga]

......

Assuming my question makes any sense, is it legitimate to play it that way?

Yes, of course it is.
And you could also play starting with the middle octave D and
dipping down to the C and A.

How many notes does the piece use(in the notation you have) and what are they?
I may have other options for you.

[Chuck_Clark]

How many notes does the piece use(in the notation you have) and what are they?
I may have other options for you.

The problem is that I don't really understand the question. I interpret it to mean a listing of the actual notes used, without specific counts of each. But somehow, I don't see how that would help.

I know its asking a lot, but here's the url - if anyone would have a few minutes to look at it and see what I meant. The notes I asked about (the first instance of them, anyway) are the ninth and tenth on the first line.

http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtra ... NLD4&tab=w

Thanks for everyone's help on this

[Chuck_Clark]

Chuck - go back about three pages to 10MAR04 and look for "Sea Chanties " post by me. Some listers answered but more needs to be learned by me on the subject.

BillG

Bill

Unfortunately, I'm a poor choice to offer an opinion. I read the repllies to your post and several of them shot right over my head and into space.

In passing, I did note that the Digital Traditions database I mentioned a couple of days ago seems to have a number of sea chanties, though.

[raindog1970]

Try it this way, Chuck:

Code: Select all

X:1
T:Green Fields of France (Willie McBride)
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:D
z4A2|A4AA|d4d2|BB3G2|
E4dd|c3cd2|ef3e2|d3GB2|
A4zA|A4AA|d4dd|B3BG2|
E4dd|cc3d2|e4fe|d2d3e|
d6|z4a2|a2a3a|ag3gf|
e2e2f2|g4gf|e3ef2|gf3e2|
d2e2f2|e6-|e2z2a2|a2a2a2|
a4gf|e2e2d2|B4cd|e2e3f|
g4fe|d2d2e2|d4dd|e3ee2|
e2f2gg|g3ag2|fed2dd|e3ee2|
e4ef|g3ag2|e6-|e2z2g/2gg/2|
g2g3g|g2a3g|gf4-f-|f2z2fe|
d4de|f4gf|e3dc2|d6-|d4

You've got to start out on A if you're playing a D whistle, or you can't fit in the lower notes of this tune.
I think it sounds better on a lower keyed whistle, but that's purely a matter of personal opinion!

[Alcona]

I also learn by a combination of sheet music and by ear. A program that I've found useful is called MidiNotate. It's not expensive, and as it plays each note, you can follow along. You can also transpose, print out a score, and many other things.

Alcona

[Zubivka]

Chuck, thanks for posting the link to the score (and tabs). Me froggie can't do without them toads sitting on telegraph wires. This makes it clear.

Problem:
1) key of G, and no accidentals, though tune obviously in some D Major.
2) range, a duodecim (12th) from A to second D
3) Ain't that mixolydian D if ever there was one?

• Plain solution: play it on a D whistle, starting second D (oxx xxx) and not forgetting the Cs are natural. Good luck with them upstairs... As for the cat, good riddance!

• The Way of the Zoob: get a G whistle, start D xxo ooo
No shriek, no half-holing...

I know, some will say, here's Zoob again with his twisted untrad ways.
I mean, really, why make it simple--play a key of G tune on a G whistle???

Ha.. zis so Froonch K.I.S.S.* method

*for those who don't know: Keep It Simple, Stoopid!

[BillG]

I just went to the sniff-digital site and noticed there that when changing a whistle key you change the whole fingering pattern to play the tune. I was under the impression that you would keep the same fingering - as if on a D whistle - and just change the key of the whistle. Have I just learned something new or gotten totally confused? I learn more by reading first (but am working on learning by ear). I would hate to be playing with tabs all the time.

BillG

[Zubivka]

I just went to the sniff-digital site and noticed there that when changing a whistle key you change the whole fingering pattern to play the tune. I was under the impression that you would keep the same fingering - as if on a D whistle - and just change the key of the whistle. Have I just learned something new or gotten totally confused? I learn more by reading first (but am working on learning by ear). I would hate to be playing with tabs all the time.

That's where it's wrong to learn such things with tabs. The tabs are meant for D whistles, while this tune doesn't belong to them.

Just start on the G whistle with the D tab I suggest: xxo ooo
You ears and eyes (on the score) will do the rest.

What you say, about keeping the D fingering, then changing the tone of the whistle, would be true to transpose this whole tune to another key.
Play it as said above on a G whistle and you play what's written.

Same fingering on say, a low D, starting in A shifts it to a key signature of D, making an A mixolydian tune. You transposed to a fifth above what's written.

What's important is to learn it correctly, preferably on the original (untransposed) key. i.e. G whistle for concert pitch.


PS: this modes/transposing things are easy to me for I cheat: I have my "Fa-Do clock" transposing disc to make it easy. Some here have a "homebrew" copy, but I really may have to get some manufactured some day... Problem is I have to pay for a cutting die at the printer's.

[GaryKelly]

PS: this modes/transposing things are easy to me for I cheat: I have my "Fa-Do clock" transposing disc to make it easy. Some here have a "homebrew" copy, but I really may have to get some manufactured some day... Problem is I have to pay for a cutting die at the printer's.

There's an online transposer, kinda like a web-based transposing disc, which I found here: http://www.jaiandbecky.com/transposer.asp

This may be useful to those who do not have the homebrew ZoobsterCloche.



PS... edited to add there's instructions on how to make one here: http://www.retailfranchise.co.uk/music/wheel.html

[talasiga]

How many notes does the piece use(in the notation you have) and what are they?
I may have other options for you.

The problem is that I don't really understand the question. I interpret it to mean a listing of the actual notes used, without specific counts of each. But somehow, I don't see how that would help.........

Now lookie here Chuckie.
The questions are simple.
I wanted to know which notes are used in the piece and
whether its septatonic, hexatonic or pentatonic.

I want to identify the mode. If it is D Mixolydian as Zubie has
concluded(?) then I would suggest exactly what he's suggesting.
Get a G key flute on which the D falls at the Mixo tonic point
XXO OOO.

If its a pentatonic piece without a 3rd and a 6th you could use either
a G key flute or a F key flute according to taste.

Now, the notation is before you on a sheet of paper.
Which are notes used for the piece?
There are only 5, 6 or 7 of them.
You can tell me what they are, surely?
It won't hurt you, even if you "don't see how that would help".

Thanks.

[talasiga]

.....There's an online transposer, kinda like a web-based transposing disc, which I found here: http://www.jaiandbecky.com/transposer.asp

This may be useful to those who do not have the homebrew ZoobsterCloche.

.....

whats with these gizmoes?
Why not let your flute transpose?
Hmm?

Know your modes on your flute.
There are only six modes used in your Euro traditions.
Is that so hard?

Ionian (major) from here XXX XXX or here XXX OOO
Dorian from XXX XXO or XXO OOO
Phrygian from XXX XOO or XOO OOO
Lydian from XXX OOO or OXX OOO
Mixolydian from XXO OOO or XXX XXX
and
Aeolian (nat. minor) from XOO OOO or XXX XXO.

Enjoy

[Zubivka]

PS... edited to add there's instructions on how to make one here: http://www.retailfranchise.co.uk/music/wheel.html

Right on! excellent, simple abacus.

My gizmo is based on the same idea, just more connected to whistles/flutes, with a distinction for # and flat keys, plus a reminder of key signatures, basic fingering, and finally modes.
This way, I can transpose at a glance, or just pick the appropriate whistle tone.