What slightly different whistle is this?

BoneQuint · Post by **BoneQuint** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:46 pm

My own list, edited from Sarah's (by the way, I wasn't hammered when I decided to take up the whistle). I'm mostly looking for a high D whistle, but a matching C would be nice too. In close to in order of importance:

1. In tune (preferably tunable).
2. No "plasticky" sound.
3. Requires little or no warming, doesn't clog easily (curved windway?).
4. Not too touchy with breath pressure, missed notes don't honk too badly.
5. High second octave not too loud; no shrillness.
6. OXX OOO fingering for C natural.
7. Tone is closer to the "rough" end of the spectrum, a bit airy and gritty.
8. Fat, singing tone: not buzzy or spitty or squeaky or "thin" sounding.
9. Relatively low air requirement.
10. Decent bell note (more important that 2nd octave is easy on the ears).
11. Traditional or "old-fashioned" looking.
12. No sudden jump in air requirement for upper end of 2nd octave.
13. Audible in a small session but not too loud to play in the living room.

Here's why some fail:

Generation (with blu-tack tweak): Still too plasticky and thin sounding, sometimes squeaky.

Oak: 2-finger C is sharp, still a bit too plasticky (but not thin).

Whitecap: Very close! A little too quiet and "pure." If he can make me a louder "rougher" head, and a thick tube with a good 2-finger C, that might do it. (I haven't asked yet).

Shaw (Jerry-Tweaked): 2-finger C quite sharp. High 2nd octave a bit loud and takes a bit too much push. Missed notes sound awful! But, the best rough-n-ready sound I've heard, and looks great. I'll use this one plenty in any case.

Susato: Way too plasticky. High 2nd octave painful.

Water Weasel: Tried one in a store...it might do, it only "fails" the traditional looks test (which is low on the list). Oddly enough, not really plasticky sounding. I'll have to try it again, I don't recall how good the 2-finger C is, and didn't bring whistles to compare it to.

Elfsong: Clogs way too easily for me. Missed notes are bad. A bit too "pure." But otherwise very good, especially a nice 2-finger C and fat, singing tone.

Sweetone: Sounds a bit hollow and plasticky. But extremely playable and forgiving, maybe the easiest to play for me.

If I could try this "magic whistle" first, and it did what I wanted, I'd pay a good amount for it. Untested, I'd be more cautious, but I might try it out if it was recommended highly enough and had good resale value.

I imagine that all narrows it down quite a bit, eh? So what are your suggestions?

spittin_in_the_wind · Post by **spittin_in_the_wind** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:50 pm

Tweaked Clarke original from the Whistleshop? (although it does clog less if you warm it)

Robin

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:55 pm

or maybe the lon dubh? http://www.whistleanddrum.com/detail.as ... T_ID=po-bb
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... t=lon+dubh

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:56 pm

I would say Syn is a good bet.

-James

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:08 pm

Water Weasel! Remove dinossaur sticker and dip whistle in mud for a more traditional look.

Or get a Thin Weasel (wood) instead. Work directly with Glenn Schultz, to get the sound you want. Or Busman, which is a close relative of the Weasels.

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:17 pm

Except for "low air requirements" and "traditional-looking" a Serpent Polly would do it. The newer "Sweet Polly" is supposed to have a lower air requirement - I don't yet have one to test. But even if you ask Bill to leave it unpainted the whistle won't look any more traditional than the Water Weasel.

Except for the "slightly rough" requirement, a Sync would be a good match, but the Syn has a fairly pure sound (more like a loud Oak than anything else I can think of).

These are both fairly inexpensive whistles ($25-$35) compared to some of the others you've mentioned.

BoneQuint · Post by **BoneQuint** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:43 pm

Thanks for the comments so far! Thoughts...

Tweeked Clarke Original: I might try it, especially if they can make me one from an "unfinished" Clarke (I just emailed them about that). At $25, not too big a risk.

Lon Dubh: At almost $400, a bit high for me right now. Plus it's funny looking.

Syn: I might try that too...I recall hearing it's very "pure" sounding, but maybe the new ones less so? A nice pure whistle is good for certain tunes, anyway.

Busman: Gorgeous. Tempting. I'd love to try one, but I wouldn't order one sight-unseen. Hm, I will be on the East Coast this summer...

Sweet Polly: I might give this a try too.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:29 pm

One point to note -

I'm not convinced that a windway that is curved really does much - if infact anything at all - to relieve clogging in a whistle. When a whistle is played it is held in a position of usually at least 45 degrees down. This downward tilt will be MUCH greater than any curvature found on a windway floor. If spit is going to go anywhere due to gravity pulling it from high to low, it will all end up at the bottom opening of the windway one way or another one would think.

I believe the materials and the overall shape of the windway will have more to do with how easily a particular whistle may clog. Though their may be some small benefit to the tone, I can't see how this curved or sloped floor in a windway could do anything for clogging issues. Sounds like an urban myth to me...kinda like the whole toilet bowl spinning one way here and the other down south!

vomitbunny · Post by **vomitbunny** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:42 pm

DCrom wrote:Except for "low air requirements" and "traditional-looking" a Serpent Polly would do it. The newer "Sweet Polly" is supposed to have a lower air requirement - I don't yet have one to test. But even if you ask Bill to leave it unpainted the whistle won't look any more traditional than the Water Weasel.

Except for the "slightly rough" requirement, a Sync would be a good match, but the Syn has a fairly pure sound (more like a loud Oak than anything else I can think of).

These are both fairly inexpensive whistles ($25-$35) compared to some of the others you've mentioned.

Has anyone tried this sweet polly? Being that I am still in the mid price market (but now looking at the hundred and up crowd) I am interested to know how they play. I think they were at one time offering a free sweet polly when you buy one of there higher end whistles.

raindog1970 · Post by **raindog1970** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:55 pm

Brian Lee wrote:I'm not convinced that a windway that is curved really does much - if infact anything at all - to relieve clogging in a whistle.

I'm with Brian on this one... the only advantage I see in having a curved windway is that it's easier to make them that way when carving/filing/milling cylindrical tubing.

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:47 pm

vomitbunny wrote:Has anyone tried this sweet polly? Being that I am still in the mid price market (but now looking at the hundred and up crowd) I am interested to know how they play. I think they were at one time offering a free sweet polly when you buy one of there higher end whistles.

I'd like to know myself - I'm curious what that changes are from the original Brassy Polly. I'm hoping that it's a move back to the lower air requirements of the original pressed-head Serpent Polly but keeping the Brassy Polly sound.

Though even if I don't hear anything I'll probably add a Sweet Polly when I send Bill my order for an Serpent A whistle next month (I'm forcing myself to wait - the A will come from my tax refund).

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:31 am

Point #7 rules out a Rose, or Sweetheart Pro.

An Abell seems to match all needs, knowing some are breathier than others. For the looks, I'd go rosewood rather than Afr. blackwood, and this may enrichen the tone too.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:07 am

peeplj wrote:I would say Syn is a good bet.

-James

I would think the syn fails to an extend on points 4 and 12. It's fine in itself but the high notes do need an extra push and are fussy. Try playing, say, the start of the turn of the Humours of Scariff fully legato like you would without any problem on an Oak or Generation, or Sindt for that matter and you'll find the Syn will do so only extremely reluctantly and will tend to f*rt at most high notes, it doesn't take these jumps well. It will play the tune but prefers it if the notes are played, tongued if you like, separately. Which is fine if you want to play like that but not if you don't.
The whistle does have a clear C natural that doesn't go fuzzy if you apply a bit of extra pressure. Overall it seems a bit slack in response, again it's fine but it's not quite as easy to play and responsive as the Generation/Oak/Sindt etc type of whistles.

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:48 am

I'd say a Burke, either an old-style Wide Bore Brass or one of the newer brass or alu whistles.

To my ears, the old style Burke takes less air, is slightly quieter and has a more gritty sound. The newer Burkes are louder, take more push to play the second octave, and have a purer sound.

/Jens

BoneQuint · Post by **BoneQuint** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:56 am

I've been curious about the Burke Wide Bore, as I've heard it's probably the most "traditional" sounding of his whistles. And the Sweetheart Professional is appealing too, as a "low-maintenance" wood whistle -- maybe it can be made a little less "pure" sounding? I might just email Ralph and ask...

By the way, the Whistle shop said they could do "tweeked" Original Clarkes with the natural finish, but they tought the black paint sweetened the sound, since it thickened the tube a bit. Sounds possible -- thinner tubes seem to sound a bit "reedy" or weak to me, compare an Oak body to a Generation with the same fipple, for example. I think one of the biggest problems of the Sweetone is the thin-walled tube -- hm, maybe I'll build it up with several coats of paint or something...

By the way, I'm open to trades...PM or email me if you have something you think I might be interested in. I could part with Elfsong C/D set I have, as well as the Susato D/C/Bb set.

(And, thanks again for all the input!)